[My Custom S]

Good evening Ladies and Gents,

I'll try and keep this short and sweet (I'm going to fail!). I've been a POCI member since 1994, I'm 44 years old and very mechanically inclined (registered professional mechanical engineer) and I'm in the middle of a rotisserie restoration of my 1969 Pontiac Custom S 2-door hardtop that I've owned since 1983. I also have a 1967 Pontiac Tempest Custom that will be next. Needless to say I'm old school and up to my elbows in projects.

I'm getting ready to sell my 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GT that I bought new and move into something with two less doors. I want a daily driver that's reliable and fun to drive!! No more family sedans!!

I've been looking at the fourth generation WS6 and Firehawks, but I'm an A-Body guy through and through, very little experience with F-Bodies other than a one year stint with a 1976 Firebird and some mechanical assistance with a 1968 Firebird.

I'm looking for an opinion on what you would recommend for the best all-around daily driver in WS6 or Firehawk trim. I haven't read a thing on this forum yet but it appears that there's tons of info here, but I just wanted to throw this topic out there and see what you all think. I don't mind older but to be honest I would prefer something more modern. My budget will probably be in the $15-20k range.

I'm curious to hear what you have to say as I haven't looked at a single car yet, but I'm getting ready.

Thanks again for your time and I appreciate any feedback you can provide!

Matt C

 

[305 Formula]

For that budget you can get pretty much whatever 4th gen you want. You probably want a 98-02 LS1 T/A. Any thoughts on options, mileage ect?

 

[My Custom S]

Thanks for the quick response. I'm not too hung up on mileage or options, although I think a manual transmission and T-tops would be fun. I guess I would prefer lower mileage (less than 50,000) would be nice. Again, this would become my daily driver. I only go 30 miles a day so I'm not too hung up on mpg's. With thirsty 400's in my other cars plus my Suburban I guess I've never been hung up on them.

Any opinions are welcomed and appreciated!

 

[superman]

I would definitely look into 98-02 WS6's. They have the most power stock and will still get you pretty decent mpg. You'll likely even have money left over if you're willing to spend up to 15-20k.

 

[My Custom S]

Superman,

That's what I'm thinking too, a 4th generation WS6. That would leave me a few dollars to add some things if I so desire, although I'm not really looking into another project.

Is there anything I should be on the look out for or to avoid?

Thanks again!

 

[steves86ta]

heres my opinion for the perfect DD remeber this is my opinion and not necessarily what you should do. If it was me id look into nothing older than 98, no more than 50k miles (in that budget shouldnt be a problem) Heres my requirements for a DD.

1. A/C
2. Cruise
3. Keyless Entry
4. Nice Stereo
5. Automatic because its a DD i live in CA and Traffic Sucks in a 6speed car since i sit in traffic everyday i want an auto
6. Must have decent cup holders
7. No t-tops because most of them will leak at some point
8. V8 just cause lol

For example my 94 ta is a lt1, auto car and gets a consistent 19.5-20.0 mpg plenty for me. But im also an avid cruise control user. Now i have driven t56 cars and the mileage is better but once again im in so cal and traffic sucks.... takes me usually close to 45-55 min to go 30 miles... I know i only have an lt1, but it is still a fun car and rides really nice plus it can keep up/beat most cars i come across so for me its perfect.

Heres the mods i have planned to transform my car from a good dd to a perfect one

1. Dynamat EVERYTHING
2. CAI
3. Decent cat back but not to loud
4. 1 10" sub in factory location
5. nitto 555 street tires (amazing in the rain)
6. a tune
7. 3.42's and a 2200 stall

With these basic mods the car will be a relatively quick and very nice driver as well as comfortable and quiet on the inside. The 3.42's wont kill you in mileage and still be pretty fun. The stall will help wake up whats already there. As far as the mods i would do i would not do anything different on an ls1 car. They would make an even better difference to an ls1 car.

 

[TransAmer99]

My personal opinion is that TA's generally don't make the best daily drivers. For one, even the 'newest' models are 10+ years old. How many 10-year-old anythings would you consider?

Secondly, TA's aren't going to do you any favors in the gas mileage department, so unless your commute is short and sweet - fahgedaboudit. And if your commute is short, you hardly get the engine up to temp - meaning you are creating "severe duty" as oil and lubes need to be up to temp in order to do their job correctly.

Thirdly, unless your place of employment (along with wherever you would 'normally' travel) has secured parking, you are exposing your car to damage, vandalism and theft. TA's and other performance vehicles are rich targets of opportunity for those who feel 'entitled' to stuff that doesn't belong to them.

Finally, Firebirds are image cars that deserve to be cared for extra specially. Most peoples' daily drivers end up with breakfast, lunch, coffee and trash spilled all inside them and some even look like 'mobile closets' instead of somebody's pride and joy. Your mileage may vary, but this has been my observation.

One last note - neither of my Firebirds see bad weather. If winter driving or seasonal thundershowers are issues, a front-engine, rear-drive platform is about the worst choice you can make. Especially when there are so many FWD and AWD options available. For a good, all-weather daily driver, I'd recommend a Subaru! Notice I'm not saying I NEVER drive the TA's to work - but it had better be an ideal forecast on a Friday!

 

[taman76]

As nice as the Firehawk is, there are so few of them to own and I wouldn't want to see one used daily. I think we need to preserve them.

But with that, 4gen birds are good daily drivers. 3gens aren't bad either if you can find one in good enough shape. For that matter my 76 is a very nice driving car.. Just lacks modern luxury is all.

There is a growing move to use older cars for daily drivers. Car guys are finding cars from the 80's to early 90's and fixing them up for daily use. They are not expensive to repair. Most can do their own work. Insurance is cheaper. And the cars really are nice to drive.

Wish you the best in your search.

 

[TransAmer99]

Just to be clear - I own a 2002 Firehawk and an '80 TA. I am the 5th owner of the 'Hawk and did, in fact, use it for daily driving for about 18 months when my oldest daughter started driving (and I 'loaned' her the use of my then DD). Afterward, we got her a car of her own - a '96 Subaru Legacy with less than 50k miles on it - and I got back my DD, thereby returning the 'Hawk to showcar duty. 18 months of daily driving netted me bug splatters and paint scratches on the front facia, a chipped outside mirror housing (courtesy of an idiot bicyclist who wanted a closer look at my parked car), two busted headlights from rocks kicked up by commercial vehicles and worn springs and suspension, courtesy of Houston's potholed roadways, which led to some much needed upgrades after the fact. I also discovered that, being 6'-2" and a shade over 200 lbs, sitting in weeekday traffic in an F-body isn't as comfortable as putting it through it's paces on an open road during the weekend.

 

[My Custom S]

Jim, Dan, and Steve,

All excellent comments and I appreciate your opinions! I agree that the Firehawk is a special car and for that reason I will probably pass over one to use as a daily driver. I too am 6'-2" and a bit more than a shade over 200 lbs (call it 225 lbs), however my commute is only 22 minutes each way and 15 miles. Not too far but far enough that temperatures will come up to steady state. It is highway in the morning (no sitting in traffic) and back roads in the afternoon, again no sitting in traffic. I currently drive a 12 year old Grand Prix and my other backup is a 15 year old Suburban, so vehicle age doesn't scare me. I do want creature comforts though. I'm surprised by the comment that one of the things you would do is put Dynamat in the car; I would have thought that these cars would be well insulated by the 2000's. Again, my rides are late 60's vintage so they're like driving in steel cans!

My parking is secure at work as we have a private lot, so no worries there. Excellent point though!

I still like the idea of T-tops and a 6-speed, only because I've never had either, but again, maybe they aren't practical. I tend to keep my cars for a very long time, so I would expect this one to be no different unless it simply isn't what I thought it would be.

I keep a VERY clean car inside, however I do tend to let them get dirty outside, although with a "new" car in the stable I would be more inclined to keep after it on the exterior as well.

I live just south of Charlotte, NC, so fortunately for me the weather here is great most of the time. Our roads are free of potholes and rust is a non-issue. If I was still in Massachusetts I would NEVER consider one of these cars for a daily driver, at least not from November to March. I actually moved here primarily because I wanted to get my cars out of that environment. Both my Pontiacs were built at the Framingham, Massachusetts assembly plant and spent the majority of their lives in the great white north. I say you can always take the car out of the north, but it is very difficult to take the north out of the car!

Thanks again to all of your comments, these are quite helpful.

Oddly enough, I had a dream just last night that I was test driving a newer Dodge Challenger! Why would that come into my mind after just signing up on Firebird Nation??? Perhaps there is a psychological forum I need to sign up for next...

Matt C

 

[TransAmer99]

Oh, and by the way, Matt, this being the introductions forum and all - Welcome to FBN!! I'm sure you'll find lots of friendly folks and assistance on these boards.

Last summer, I helped a member from WI make a connection on a car locally. In that case, both parties agreed to a $16.5k price for a 2002 TA with only 30k miles on it. It was not a ram air car, but it was an LS-1 6-spd M with t-tops and it was amazingly clean. I checked out the car and test drove it for the buyer prior to him making the trip south.

Here at work, a lady has a black '02 Ram Air with 50k miles listed for $18k. The ad doesn't specify manual or auto. I'm thinking the car is priced a little high, but I haven't looked it over personally.

 

[GaryDoug]

I have owned a 70 Formula, an 86 T/A, and the present 98 T/A. All were/are DD's. They have definitely gotten better in that usage over the years. Power went up, and so did fuel economy. Handling and ride quality improved each time as well. All were automatics because of the requirement to haul a boat trailer (see avatar). Getting up an inclined boat ramp with a heavy trailer/boat using a manual transmission is no fun. A downside is difficult entry/exit ability, and I'm only 5'10". Forget about the rear seats unless you are a child. Half the engine is practically inaccessible under the cowling. And avoid at all costs any LS1 that has the annoying piston slap problem or it will drive you crazy. Before you buy one, try out the car on a cold/overnight start and listen for that. Takes abut 2-5 minutes to disappear. Don't let the owner "warm up" the car before you get there. The tires you select will make a huge difference in ride comfort, your choice. Good luck.