[usp55]

ha yea hope my mom doesn't see these pics, that light is from the living room. Yea the reason i pulled it was to get at the sub frame to cover them with por15. also wanted to change engine mounts and its just easier to work on the engine. I starting to really think about rebuilding it and making some choice upgrades.

 

[72 blackbird]

I was about 20 when I tore apart my Firebird for the first time- my old man came out into the garage and told me I was nuts tearing apart a car that ran (he didn't know at the time but I had just blown up the original 350). He would then ask me every time if I blew up the motor when I would pull out a motor for a new cam or to check bearings after a race- I'd still tell him I blew up the motor

.

If you already know you're keeping the car and you're going to be working on it forever, you will eventually invest in all of the shop gear necessary to keep "The Precious" running smooth- shop lights, a big rollaway box full of hand tools, parts washer, welder, 20T shop press, cabinets to store all of these extra engine and trim parts. You'll also figure out it's handy to have an extra motor or two, especially if you race it or drive it hard- build one for daily driving and the other for fun so you can always keep the car running.

What kind of compression did the engine have? Before you pull the heads put the starter on it, pull the plugs, hook a battery to it, and do a compression test. If it's good I would just overhaul it- install new timing chain, oil pump, cam, lifters, pushrods, and rear main seal. If you want it to run even better get the heads serviced- use fresh s/s valves, keepers, get a valve job, have bronze guides installed and have it machined for positive oil seals on both intakes and exhaust.

If you want to tear the motor apart to inspect for wear be very careful not to scratch or nick the bearings and journal surfaces, and keep them with the same journal. You can also soak the piston assemblies in solvent but not carb cleaner-(it will eat the aluminum!) and use a nylon brush to clean them. If you pull the heads and there is a ridge, you 'll need a reamer to take it out before you pull pistons- use two pieces of cut 3/8" hose to cover the rod bolts so you don't scratch the journals.

It also helps to have someone who knows Pontiacs to guide you through the teardown- Chevy guys are okay here but they tend to loose important parts like cam retainer plates, fuel pump eccentrics, timing cover dowel, guides, etc. and not know if there's something wron even if they're looking at it. Keep everything organized- ziplocks and a sharpie work great here- and it should go back together as easy as the teardown.

TMI? Sorry for the novel.

Geno

 

[usp55]

u kidding me, keep it coming. Now i just have so many more questions! haha I wish i knew how to go further into the engine or better yet know what engine components work well with other engine components (i.e, which cam for which rockers/springs combo, how to make this 185hp 400 more a little more respectable - 300+hp.)

the engine is going to be out for a while so i might as well upgrade it. But as of right now i think im just going to clean it up and get it running really nice with some new parts (carb, intake, oil pump, filter, fuel pump, timing chain, etc.) get the rest of the car up to speed and then a year or two after its were i want it go back and build a real power plant for it that's not restricked by my wallet. Right now its go some much it needs to get done i know ill cheap out on the engine.

I have to take care of the rear frame rails, some minor hole in the floor, full exhaust, windshield, rear bumper, body work, paint, interior, rims/tires,and on and on and on. I really just need this engine to be able to move it right now.

 

[stephendsp]

ur sitting now about where i was. no i have the subframe off. mine came out easy, but have to be careful. Body doesnt weight much afterwards. lol

 

[72 blackbird]

Collin,
I forgot to ask you what no. heads you have on the 400- if they are stock no.99 or no.96 they can ported to make good power. There are alot of good cams out there for low CR motors- I'm running a Crane 272H (216/216 dur @050, 272/272 adv dur.,110LSA) in my 350. I've run this cam before in both 350's and 400's and it has low to midrange power- great for a daily driver.

I have a good 406 (400 .030 over) in my 'Bird now, but I'm pulling it out to upgrade/overhaul it- still has cast rods and stock 2-piece valves in it, which are the weak parts in a Poncho motor. This motor will more than likely get stroked to 464 in any case, but I don't want to take chances in ruining a good 491988 400 block by blowing it up because of crappy parts- I'm storing it for now and when the funds come up I'll do the rebuild. I've blown up a 350 and 400 trying to make stock parts go fast- when the time comes and you build a hp motor, put good forged pistons and rods in the block and forged s/s valves in the heads, get the rotating assembly balanced, have the oil clearances blueprinted, and keep the final assembly clean. Do these things to any Pontiac motor you build and it will live a long life.

The 350 I'm overhauling was rebuilt recently (no ridge in the bore), so after tearing it down, inspecting and cleaning it, I added ARP rod bolts, the new cam, lifters, pushrods, oil pump, timing chain, gasket set. I knew I couldn't live with a 7.6:1 350 that makes 160 hp, so I'm putting the ported no. 48's with 1.65 roller rockers off the 406 on this 350- should make around 325-350 hp.

Pontiacs make all of the power in the heads, so this is where you should spend the money to make hp. Rebuilding a motor is more thourough and costly, but if you have parts that have been already serviced (like my no.48's), you can use them on a less costly overhaul, save money, yet still assemble a combo that makes power. I have about $700 in this buildup (which includes the $150 I spent to get the 350/TH350 combo- killer deal), so it can be done on the cheap.

Geno

 

[carrera4s]

Welcome Colin!!

You're working fast and well so long...congrats!! keep it up

@ Gene: You're giving lots of good advices and it's interesting to read about how you got into building Firebirds

 

[72 blackbird]

Even with the internet it's still a challenge to start turning wrenches and ratchets and tear down a motor, especially when you've had no formal training. I enrolled in auto shop courses at the local junior college to learn about engines, transmissions, and rear ends, and I'd recommend that plan for anyone who doesn't know a Pontiac person.

Geno

p.s. My Pontiac stories are free- house calls will cost you at least a good lunch and 'beverages'

 

[79TAYungBlud]

here's something we've been checking out at TAC just for a little inspiration on your 71 Firebird. It's a 71 Formula 400 video real clean! check it out: http://www.collectormotors.com/71form/video.html

 

[hdebo]

here's something we've been checking out at TAC just for a little inspiration on your 71 Firebird. It's a 71 Formula 400 video real clean! check it out: http://www.collectormotors.com/71form/video.html

That is one sweet ride.

 

[usp55]

ok so no pics from this weekend but i did get some things done

-pulled the fuel line from the middle forward
-brake and line are all off
-upper and lower control arms are off

basically I have two very bare frame rails up front, i think you can picture that

my question is now what?

Should i remove the rails from the body? Replace those mounts while i have it like this?

Also is getting it back together going to be hard? Im worried about it not lining back up and causeing problems because it wont be straight.
haha im not even sure how to get it off the body to be honest.

next week end my goal is to have everything degreased and cleaned and paint the metal (all black, frames, control arms, etc) Whats a good paint i was going to use por-15 but thats not really a top coat. Whats a good paint for a ncie gloss black to cover the por15?

 

[72 blackbird]

Collin,
Pulling the subframe isn't a good idea for a first-timer- usless you've done it before and know you'll be able to align body panels with the nose and radiator support, you're opening up a can of worms. I'd just clean it up and leave it in place for now- concentrate on getting the motor and trans rebuilt, since that's already a big job.

The POR-15 will dry to the finish you bought (semi-gloss or gloss), and is much better and tougher than regular paint, which will come off when gasoline hits it. Test a small area and you will be happy with it once it dries.

Geno

 

[ironman361]

I wasn't saying that you should get one.
Just that they sound like you have a blower under the hood.
They do not use chains (at least, the Pontiac ones don't), and will last forever while regular chain driven ones will stretch out over time.

George

i heard it wasnt good to use gear drives instead of timing chains?i heard it lowers your horse power or torque let me know if this is true if not im considering using the gear drive

 

[WarbirdTA]

I never heard that, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
It was a Hot Rodder trick to get people to think you had a blower under the hood.
See what a engine builder shops says about it.
I do know that a double roller is better than a regular timing chain.
But I heard that gear drives don't ever loosen.

George

 

[usp55]

Collin,
Pulling the subframe isn't a good idea for a first-timer- usless you've done it before and know you'll be able to align body panels with the nose and radiator support, you're opening up a can of worms. I'd just clean it up and leave it in place for now- concentrate on getting the motor and trans rebuilt, since that's already a big job.

The POR-15 will dry to the finish you bought (semi-gloss or gloss), and is much better and tougher than regular paint, which will come off when gasoline hits it. Test a small area and you will be happy with it once it dries.

Geno

i have used the gloss on the rear end i put in my camaro and it does fade. Por-15 say to top coat it especially when in sunlight. now i know its not in the sun but neither is my rear.

Also would u suggest i use pro-15 on the control arms too?

 

[72 blackbird]

Your rear end may not be in direct sunlight, but UV goes everywhere, even indirect sunlit areas, like under a car. Not even POR-15 can prevent against fading since the the underside of a car isn't the nicest place for paint, but it does hold up better than regular paint. I guess it all depends on how much exposure the POR'd part gets.

You could paint the control arms w/ POR, but it's not going to stay shiny new if you drive the car alot.

Geno

 

[usp55]

I didn't have much time to work on it but i got most everything off the the frame rails: upper and lower control arms, brake line, fuel line, steering.. I have some por15 and por15 top coat coming and a crap load of simple green to clean everything. and these pics are just to update the thread. Yea geno thats what i was reading about the uv light, supposedly the top coat is fade resistant.

I just have one question. Should i remove the frame from the body or is that going to cause more headaches for me trying to get it back on? wait i already asked that never mind

one more, is the por15 going to take the heat right there by the engine and the headers? or should i coat it with their higher heat stuff?

 

[RpLettermen]

i heard it wasnt good to use gear drives instead of timing chains?i heard it lowers your horse power or torque let me know if this is true if not im considering using the gear drive

someone is blowing smoke up your BEEP the only way to "gain" power from your timing componets is to use a belt system as all of it's compents are lighter and as it's a belt helps eliminate higher rpm harmonics but gear drive is the way to go. but the question is do they make a gear drive for the pontiac motor.

as far as valves EVERYTHING is 2 piece unless you go with marine style valves and they cost an arm and leg.

Congrats on the build so far.

 

[Alan70]

I went with a double roller on mine!

 

[usp55]

ok im pulling the subframe and all the bolts cam out really easy excpt for one. The from pass side bolt. Its just spinning and i cant stop it. Tried to hammer the metal part down over the square bolt but as soon as i turn it the metal pops right up and it spins again. any ideas? I pb blasted the crap out of the bolt

 

[lotsatas]

ok im pulling the subframe and all the bolts cam out really easy excpt for one. The from pass side bolt. Its just spinning and i cant stop it. Tried to hammer the metal part down over the square bolt but as soon as i turn it the metal pops right up and it spins again. any ideas? I pb blasted the crap out of the bolt

Do you have a grinder? If you do, put a thin cutting wheel on the grinder and cut the bolt off. I have done this many times and it saves a lot of time and effort.
Simply buy a new bolt to replace the one you cut off.