As fourthirteen says Pontiac didn't start stamping a partial VIN on engine blocks until very late in the 1967 Model year. Some say they started in the 68 model year, but a few cars assembled from June 1967 have been found with partial VIN numbers stamped on the blocks. But not all. So as long as you engine has the correct stampings, and has casting dates at least a couple of weeks before it was assembled, no one can prove or disprove you have the original engine.

 

The 1967 Firebird blocks did not have VINs stamped in them…that started in ‘68 or ‘69, don’t remember which. They did have a date code stamped on the back near the distributor hole, so if the application code (WU) and date code match up with the car, as yours seem to, then that’s the best you can hope for on a ‘67. Sounds like yours is correct.
Would love to see some photos of the car.

 

You will notice that block was cast without the vin pad.Tom

 

Looks like a good project. You’ve got your work cut out for you. Also looks like an interesting Bird in the background.
Thanks for the photos.

 

Looks like a good project. You’ve got your work cut out for you. Also looks like an interesting Bird in the background.
Thanks for the photos.

Thanks. Yeah, this needs some work but is a more solid than the last two cars I built.

My bird in the background: Hot Wheels Designer Built a Firebird, Then Made it a Toy! Pics below after it came back from acid dipping (2x). I ended up replacing most of the body, so I changed it a bit along the way.

 

Wow, that’s really cool. I’m envious of your skills. Can’t wait to see how this one
turns out. Thanks for sharing.

 

Welcome to FBN !

Without a VIN match, I don't see how you could ever positively ID it as the original engine. I assume you have already checked the casting date and numbers of the block. It would have probably had to have been cast in either '66 or '67. Looks like the only 400 block used in '67 was a # 9786133.

http://www.pontiacpo.../engcast01.html

This code chart does indeed show a 335hp 400 with a YS code in '67. But it was used in a GTO, not a Bird.

http://www.classical...obal/engine.cgi

http://www.antiqueca....net/tech02.htm

The YS code was used in several year models. So I'd make a positive ID by casting # and date code. If it is indeed a '67 400, then it more than likely came out of a base 335hp '67 GTO.

If it is indeed the original engine and did not get stamped on the assembly line, it is by no means the strangest thing that ever happened on a Pontiac assembly line.

 

ponyakr, Thanks very much for the info! I have checked the date code which is D117 so the year is right but I can't get at the serial # as the engine is in the car and I don't know how I'd access it. The engine #'s below the dist. are the 9786133 (the last 3 looks REALLY weird) that you referred to. I figured that this engine is not proper for the car but I wonder how someone got hold of an unstamped goat motor to put into it if it wasn't done by some GM entity. It is after all a "period correct" block so if it was done back in the early period of the car by anyone outside GM it would most likely been a fluke because they wouldn't of cared which year the block was. and what are the odds of a restorer getting an unstamped motor these days. I am resigned to the idea the car isn't #'s matching and I didn't pay that kind of money I just like solving riddles when I can. By the way the invoice date if it is at all relevant here is March 8.1967.

 

Now, the following is mere speculation on my part. They sold nearly 100,000 GTO's in '67. The Bird had just been introduced. So the GTO assembly line was rolling at full capacity. They were probably making 400 motors as fast as they could to keep up. Somebody on the assembly line could have misread the build sheet of a 360hp GTO, and stamped the motor for a 335hp / TH400 GTO.

Then somebody else noticed the mistake, and did not use the 335hp engine. So there it was, already stamped YS, but with no VIN to stamp on it.. Now how it got from there to your Bird is anybody's guess.

 

More thoughts on the subject: If I wanted to have a matching numbers engine, I'd try to find a block with a 2-digit code that matched a '67 400 / auto. Since it is not possible to find the original engine (most likely), then the VIN won't match, of course. But, the 2-digit code is right out front, in plain site, easy to spot. So, if it matches, and you have 670 heads, and the correct intake and carb, it will appear numbers matching to the avg guy.

Of course, inside that block you could have a stroker, for a bit more fun ! The outside still appears stock. WI , WQ, WU, WZ, YT, and XN, according to this chart, seem to be the only 400 codes used in '67 Birds.

http://www.antiqueca....net/tech02.htm

Of these, the YT code looks the most promising. These were used in lots of apps from '72-early '75, as well as '67-'69. No, the block casting #'s are not the same. But these later YT blocks should be easy to find. Another difference is that the '72-'75 blocks will have all 5 motor mount bolt holes. That's a good thing, but further identifies the block as a non '67. Be careful tho ! Sometime in '75 they began using this code on the dreaded (weak) 500557 blocks. AVOID these !!!

http://www.pontiacpo.../engcode01.html

 

After picking it up in Maine and driving back to Boston (200 mi)using 1.5 tanks and booster/lead substitute I think the power its got already will be as much "fun" my wallet and wife (not necessarily in that order) will allow!

 

The factories were cranking out those cars as fast as they could. And 67 was the first year for the birds. So anything is possible. They ran short on 400 blocks that week and borrowed some. It was a last minute change to meet a dealer rush order, and the y grabbed the first block they found. Any number of things.

 

Warranty replacement at the Dealer perhaps?

 

That's what I was thinking as most likely. The invoice date for the car was march 8, and the date code for the block is April 11, so not much time elapsed between the two. By the way, does anyone know what the time frame between order and delivery was back then? Thanks again to all!

Roger

 

I thought of that too, but usually they have a specific series for those.

 

Everybody has an idea of how they want their car to look. under the hood. It's funny how some of us seem to want other's cars to look like WE want 'em. Some like the late model LS fuel injection look, even in 1st gens. I personally can't stand it when somebody puts a non Pontiac (old school type 326-455) motor of any kind in a 1st gen. It seems almost sacrilegious. There are so few of 'em left, I like to lift the hood and see that it looks a lot like a 1st gen would have back in the day.

I personally don't care if any of the numbers match. It's that original Musclecar look I like. It could be a 455 with headers and a 14" open element air cleaner. But if it has original type chrome valve covers, and a Q-jet, somehow it just "looks" right.

Here's my neighbor's '68. He did all the work himself. It has the 455 with headers I mentioned. But to me it just looks right. There are a LOT of things about this car that are not original. But if it were mine, there are only a very few cosmetic changes I'd make.

 

I got my love for 1st gens from the 1st one I ever owned. Here it is after TJ had a very good season of racing in it. I put a 4-speed and street gears in it and made it her daily driver. Here's what they looked like under the hood, including the iron intake and correct Q-jet.

 

Man Roger, you're making me wish we'd painted ours white!

I agree with you Don, I don't care much about numbers matching (although I certainly respect the value it adds and the scarcity of them, I'd never ruin a numbers matching car) , but I am particular about the look of the car. I like them to look like they looked back then, not necessarily all stock, I like them looking like the car an 18 year old back in the late 60's would have built if he'd had the money to do it.

 

Yup, I like the white too. I really wasn't sure until I was actually next to it but the paint is the best part of the restore and white over red works pretty well. As to the "bling" I kind of like the look. It is almost to the line but doesn't quite cross it for me. When I was a senior in H/S in'78 I had a 1st gen rally green RS Camaro with murals, slotted steel and sidepipes (all you guys of a certain age will remember) and if I could have afforded it I'd have put braided lines etc on it. We all ere doing the chrome do-dads back then. There is a little too much of the "monogrammed" stuff but it's there.

 

Here's a white '67 I like a lot !

 

Yes, I'm reviving a nearly 10 year old thread here, mainly because it's the closest (and only) thread I've found on this subject. I just acquired a '67 Firebird 400 4 speed project and the seller claimed this was a #'s matching car and that he had it over 20 years. It's all apart and has done a fair amount of sitting and as I look closely at the block I'm not able to locate the VIN. Upon date coding the block the casting # in front appears correct for a '67 400, the WU appears correct for manual transmission, if I read it right the date cast on the rear decodes to Feb 1, 1967 (night shift) and according to 1st gen Firebird decoder my car was built 3+ weeks afterwards. (currently have the PHS on order, too)

This tells me the block is "correct" for the car but without a VIN I can never prove it's the original born with engine. While I won't lose any sleep over this, I'm taking the time to post all this here to keep this info going for other Pontiac enthusiasts who may also run across this issue.

Or maybe the VIN is right in front of me and I need my eyes checked, or it's elsewhere on the block?

 

noted on no VIN for this block. thanks, guys. I delivered the block to my engine builder, had it checked and cleaned, and it's good to build. Original bore, too.

As for the car itself and pics, it's a new acquisition to me- a craigslist purchase from a few weeks back. it's an abandoned project the previous owner collected parts for many years but never got around to it and bailed. so now I'll have some fun putting it all back together, after I replace the trunk floor and tail panel, and straighten the front frame end, and fix the inner cowl, and a few other things