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Here is some more information on this topic. I am trying to find reliable sources, and this one comes from a college source which references its sources as well:

VEHICLE
IDLING
FACTS

Ten seconds of idling uses more fuel than turning off the engine and restarting it.
If your vehicle is stopped for more than 10 seconds - except in traffic - turn off
the engine.

What s the best way to warm up a vehicle?

With computer-controlled‚ fuel-injected engines‚ you need no more than 30
seconds of idling on winter days before driving away. Contrary to popular belief‚
the best way to warm up your vehicle is to drive it.

• Warming up the vehicle means more than warming the engine. The tires,
transmission, wheel bearings and other moving parts also need to be warm
for the vehicle to perform well. Most of these parts don't begin to warm up
until you drive the vehicle.

• The catalytic converter - the device that cleans pollutants from the vehicle's
exhaust - doesn't function at its peak until it reaches between 400°C and
800°C. The best way to warm the converter is to drive the vehicle. Driving a
vehicle cuts warm-up times in half. This reduces fuel consumption and
greenhouse gas emissions.

• If your vehicle has a diesel engine‚ idling actually lowers the coolant
temperature faster than shutting off the engine. In other words‚ switching off
the engine keeps the engine warm longer.
Vehicle Wear and Tear

• Excessive idling can be hard on your engine, and damage engine
components, including your vehicle's cylinders, spark plugs and exhaust
system.

• When idling, the engine isn t working at peak operating temperature‚ and fuel
doesn t undergo complete combustion. This leaves fuel residues that can
contaminate engine oil and make spark plugs dirty.

• Restarting a car many times has little impact on engine components such as
the battery and the starter motor. The wear on parts that restarting the engine
causes adds about $10 a year to the cost of driving - money you can recover
several times over in fuel savings

Source
Actually, Northern Nevada gets down to single digit numbers during the winter. I also believe Maryland also has some cold winters as well, which is where the military bulletin I posted above is located. Anyway, the research is scarce on this topic and I think your suggestion to agree to disagree until there is some real research done it the best route to take.
My dailey driver is a 99 Ford Ranger stepside and it says in the owners manual that warming up the engine is not required , i can scan it and print it if needed. If i dont have time to warm it up ( for my own comfort ) i start it and let it run for a minute and drive off slowly . Im with Bob.
 

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Hmm, but it's also curious as to why most Taxi cabs engines last an extremely long time. I have seen old taxi cabs in the wreckers with 300-400,000Kms on them. Body's completely shot, but the engines still run fine, good oil press and comp ok. Wonder why that is? Certainly can't be that the drivers are easy on thier cars? I'm wiling to bet it's because they NEVER shut them off. And I dunno about the Diesel thing. MAybe it's different for Autos with a desel engine, but any Highway rigs, and logging trucks, they always keep them running when they stop for a bit, lunch, a sleep, etc. I have a few long haul truck owners for friends, and they say that there is alot More wear int he engine when starting than leaving it idle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Hmm, but it's also curious as to why most Taxi cabs engines last an extremely long time. I have seen old taxi cabs in the wreckers with 300-400,000Kms on them. Body's completely shot, but the engines still run fine, good oil press and comp ok. Wonder why that is? Certainly can't be that the drivers are easy on thier cars? I'm wiling to bet it's because they NEVER shut them off. And I dunno about the Diesel thing. MAybe it's different for Autos with a desel engine, but any Highway rigs, and logging trucks, they always keep them running when they stop for a bit, lunch, a sleep, etc. I have a few long haul truck owners for friends, and they say that there is alot More wear int he engine when starting than leaving it idle.
Nothing but speculation and anecdotal evidence. How do your friends know there is "a lot more wear in the engine when starting than leaving it idle." Did they perform a double blind study to support this claim? Did they take 20 trucks, divide them up into 3 groups, and compare them after 100k miles? Again, this is mere speculation. Does merely driving a truck make one an authority on the engine, transmission, etc? I know plenty of truck drivers who know absolutely nothing about their trucks engines. Do you have any real evidence? Are you of the opinion that GM and Ford Chief Engineers don't know what they are talking about? Do you think they want more warranty problems or less?
 

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I believe in warming you're motor before take off. Some of you obviously live in warm areas, like Bob. We have -35 and up and you're car wines like a baby unless its oil is warm. Block heaters and equipped here and you should still let it warm at least ten minutes.
 

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I believe in warming you're motor before take off. Some of you obviously live in warm areas, like Bob. We have -35 and up and you're car wines like a baby unless its oil is warm. Block heaters and equipped here and you should still let it warm at least ten minutes.
-35 what, celcius? And what does that come out to in Fahrenheit? I Bet it gets as cold, if not colder, here. Therefore your claim is false. Can you provide any evidence to your claims that one should "warm a car up for at least 10 minutes"? Are you suggesting the Chief Engineer at Ford is wrong? How about the GM Engineer? Are they both wrong in your opinion?
 

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Bob, -35C is -31F. At -40 they are equal. Honestly, do you fire your car at -30F and start driving? Maybe not a 10 minut warm up, I can't wait that long neither, but 5 min or so.
 

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Bob, -35C is -31F. At -40 they are equal. Honestly, do you fire your car at -30F and start driving? Maybe not a 10 minut warm up, I can't wait that long neither, but 5 min or so.
Yes, I would start my car in -30 and immediately start driving in order to get the car up to operating temperature faster. Why let it run at less then operating temperature for an extended time when you can warm it up faster by driving it? At that low temperature, one would want to get their car up to operating temperature as fast as possible. In addition, I have asked this many times now, but nobody seems to want to address it. Are you saying the Chief Engineer at Ford is wrong? Are you saying the GM engineer is wrong as well? If you say they are wrong, please state why they are wrong. Or, do you think they are lying?
 

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Bob, I think they are wrong dude, but right at the same time. I think this is a dead issue without any solid proof from testing. Can a GM or Ford tech be wrong, yes they can. Can a GM tech or a Ford tech lie, yes they can. I for one can tell you any automatic transmission must run at an operational temp. Can a carburater operate as it should cold nope, it cannot, hence heat riser pipes. Does thicker oil flow easy at cold temp, no it does not. Does that put strain to drive with thivck oil on the pump, yes it does hence why we should not use straight 50 weight in a car. So engineer or not, technician or not their words go against what is obvious. As for newer cars well I no Erikas car will run better warmed up then if just ran cold and she has a 2001 Focus Strrt edition with that better motor. So if warm up has no significance then why the rough running then until warmed up. Can you see what damage and excessive wear there is inside your engine from the non warming up attitude, no and neither can I wiith the warming up attitude. But I do know my cars run better when warmed.

One question if these GM and Ford enhgineers are so sure then explain the rough ride and explain the heat riser pipe and by all means explain why a car high idles till operating temp inorder for a person not to just start and go?

One more question would be aren't warantee issues repaired also written off as a business loss giving the car manufacturer huge tax breaks and also if GM and Ford do not sell cars won't these engineers be in jeopardy of being out of work. Is GM and Ford right now struggling to sell cars in order to survive?

So to end this topic hopefully on a fair note because it truely is going nowhere. I think its best to do what everyone finds works for them until some strong unbias testing is done to prove or disprove either sides case. Otherwise anything reallypresented even my views of the GM and Ford Engineers is nothing more than an opinion based on speculation am I right? So I doubt without any tests there actually is no proof just he say, she say.
 

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Bob, I think they are wrong dude, but right at the same time. I think this is a dead issue without any solid proof from testing. Can a GM or Ford tech be wrong, yes they can. Can a GM tech or a Ford tech lie, yes they can.
We are not talking about a Ford tech, but rather the Chief Ford Engineer. Why would a Ford and GM engineer lie? what would be their motive?

I for one can tell you any automatic transmission must run at an operational temp.
How can you warm up a transmission without the internal parts moving?

Can a carburater operate as it should cold nope, it cannot, hence heat riser pipes.
We are not talking carburetors, we are talking new cars.

Does thicker oil flow easy at cold temp, no it does not.
What is a thicker oil? According to the chief Ford Engineer, todays oils have no problem with flowing in cold climates.

Does that put strain to drive with thivck oil on the pump, yes it does hence why we should not use straight 50 weight in a car.
We are talking modern oils, and would it be better to heat the car up quickly by driving it or slowly by letting it sit there idling while cold?Which would put more strain on the oil pump and internal parts?

So engineer or not, technician or not their words go against what is obvious.
I disagree, it seems obvious to me that it makes more sense to heat the engine up as quickly as possible, and this is done by driving it.

As for newer cars well I no Erikas car will run better warmed up then if just ran cold and she has a 2001 Focus Strrt edition with that better motor. So if warm up has no significance then why the rough running then until warmed up.
Nobody said a car runs better when cold, the question is which way is better for the engine, warming it up quickly or slowly?

Can you see what damage and excessive wear there is inside your engine from the non warming up attitude, no and neither can I wiith the warming up attitude. But I do know my cars run better when warmed.
The car is going to warm up, either slowly by sitting in one place, or quickly by driving it. It seems to make more sense to me to try and get it to operating temperature as fast as possible. Nobody is saying they run better when cold.

One question if these GM and Ford enhgineers are so sure then explain the rough ride and explain the heat riser pipe and by all means explain why a car high idles till operating temp inorder for a person not to just start and go?
The engine idles high due to an enriched air/fuel mixture at start up. Again, we are talking fuel injection here. It's nearly impossible to drive a carb car when cold. This only applies to newer cars. Can you tell me how they are wrong?

One more question would be aren't warantee issues repaired also written off as a business loss giving the car manufacturer huge tax breaks and also if GM and Ford do not sell cars won't these engineers be in jeopardy of being out of work. Is GM and Ford right now struggling to sell cars in order to survive?
Can you supply evidence to this claim? Do you think more cars breaking down would lead to increased car sales by Ford and GM??
So to end this topic hopefully on a fair note because it truely is going nowhere. I think its best to do what everyone finds works for them until some strong unbias testing is done to prove or disprove either sides case. Otherwise anything reallypresented even my views of the GM and Ford Engineers is nothing more than an opinion based on speculation am I right? So I doubt without any tests there actually is no proof just he say, she say.
I agree with this point, we need some solid research in this area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
My dailey driver is a 99 Ford Ranger stepside and it says in the owners manual that warming up the engine is not required , i can scan it and print it if needed. If i dont have time to warm it up ( for my own comfort ) i start it and let it run for a minute and drive off slowly . Im with Bob.
If you get a chance to scan it in, that would be great.
 

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We are not talking about a Ford tech, but rather the Chief Ford Engineer. Why would a Ford and GM engineer lie? what would be their motive?
Because selling cars keeps them employed. Cars with 300,000 miles endangers their careers.

How can you warm up a transmission without the internal parts moving?
Through the transmission cooling lines from the radiator, this is why we wait for the thermostat to open for an automatic transmission and not for a manual.

We are not talking carburetors, we are talking new cars.
Does not matter just that the carburater is one less factor but none the less my wifes car is a 2001 and if I do not let it warm up I get a rough running motor and friends of mine deal with stalling from an unwarmed motor. As for -31 degrees, if warming up is not necessary explain heat plugs on a diesel for its motor oil.

What is a thicker oil? According to the chief Ford Engineer, todays oils have no problem with flowing in cold climates.
Again if this is true explain why a Harley needs no thinner then 50 SAE straight weight oil while new cares stress a 5W-40 motor oil while some require a 5w-30 weight while some cars and commercial gas vehicles require a 10W-40 weight if there is no difference? Also again explain why even new trucks in cold climates require a heat plug?

Again if cars lasted forever would these same engineers risk their career due to car sales slowing down?

We are talking modern oils, and would it be better to heat the car up quickly by driving it or slowly by letting it sit there idling while cold?Which would put more strain on the oil pump and internal parts?
I believe driving gives more stress, it will be more strain as the oil is thicker, the more mileage on a car the more chance oil journals have blockage, the less saturation and the higher the RPM the worse the wear and uneven wear at that are just some of the things that come to mind along with the fact that the thermostat is not open, which intern is not alowing warm operating coolant to enter the automatic transmission while under a load.

I do however agree with strain on the pump but when all factors weigh in I feel differently about the rest of the internals. I also believe this was a problem in the early to mid 80's with the GM 3.8's.

I disagree, it seems obvious to me that it makes more sense to heat the engine up as quickly as possible, and this is done by driving it.
This is an opinion and I can deny , nor can I deny without some specific proof from unbias testing. I believe if their was some documented proof backed from testing this would have weight but until then this can only be considered an opinion as what I feel by all fairness would also be considered my opinion.

Nobody said a car runs better when cold, the question is which way is better for the engine, warming it up quickly or slowly?
So obviously if a motor runs poorly cold then it needs to be warmed up or damage is being done by the rpm and parts being under a load. If its running poorly that means it is under a strain.

The car is going to warm up, either slowly by sitting in one place, or quickly by driving it. It seems to make more sense to me to try and get it to operating temperature as fast as possible. Nobody is saying they run better when cold.
Yes but then we must consider why it runs poorly when cold, the strain the cold internals face and that added stress of the increased RPM under almost a 2 ton load.

The engine idles high due to an enriched air/fuel mixture at start up. Again, we are talking fuel injection here. It's nearly impossible to drive a carb car when cold. This only applies to newer cars. Can you tell me how they are wrong?
Why is there an enriched air/fuel ratio then with fuel injection why was my Cadillac (with a modern Northstar motor) controlled by a computer thermostat to drop idle at operating temp if the GM engineer truely believed what he said then why did he design it like he did? It took a minimial 3 minutes to get to operating temp on summer days and more then 6 minutes in winter temps.

Can you supply evidence to this claim? Do you think more cars breaking down would lead to increased car sales by Ford and GM??
Can you deny its not considered a business los and hence not a write off? As for sales, would cars that run forever give reason for anyone to buy another car aswell?

I agree with this point, we need some solid research in this area.
I agree aswell dude, these are my opinions as you have yours but without some serious unbias testing neither one of us have anyway to truely confirm our beliefs. Only judgements by what we feel works best for ourselves.

~Lou


My dailey driver is a 99 Ford Ranger stepside and it says in the owners manual that warming up the engine is not required , i can scan it and print it if needed. If i dont have time to warm it up ( for my own comfort ) i start it and let it run for a minute and drive off slowly . Im with Bob.
Is this a manual or automatic transmission in this truck?
 

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Because selling cars keeps them employed. Cars with 300,000 miles endangers their careers.
How does having unreliable vehicles during warranty lead to more cars being sold?

Through the transmission cooling lines from the radiator, this is why we wait for the thermostat to open for an automatic transmission and not for a manual.
How does having transmission cooling lines help the transmission warm up faster? How does this heat up the rotating transmission parts? And, if the goal is to heat it up faster, it would make more sense to drive the car since a car heats up faster while being driven.

Does not matter just that the carburater is one less factor but none the less my wifes car is a 2001 and if I do not let it warm up I get a rough running motor and friends of mine deal with stalling from an unwarmed motor. As for -31 degrees, if warming up is not necessary explain heat plugs on a diesel for its motor oil.
This is anecdotal evidence, I have a 2005 Durango, and I don't have any problem with rough running when cold. Carbs and fuel injection are completely different set ups. Nobody said warming up is not necessary, but rather, what is the best way to warm it up. Driving the car warms it up faster, so is it better to sit there and take longer to warm up, or to drive off so it warms up faster?

Again if this is true explain why a Harley needs no thinner then 50 SAE straight weight oil while new cares stress a 5W-40 motor oil while some require a 5w-30 weight while some cars and commercial gas vehicles require a 10W-40 weight if there is no difference? Also again explain why even new trucks in cold climates require a heat plug?
I never said there were no difference, please quote where I say there is no difference. Are you talking about the diesel glow plug? I am not sure I know what you are talking about, but if the goal is to heat the engine quickly, the best way to do that is by driving it.

Again if cars lasted forever would these same engineers risk their career due to car sales slowing down?
Nobody said the car should last forever, but how can having cars which break down all the time be beneficial to a company?

I believe driving gives more stress, it will be more strain as the oil is thicker, the more mileage on a car the more chance oil journals have blockage, the less saturation and the higher the RPM the worse the wear and uneven wear at that are just some of the things that come to mind along with the fact that the thermostat is not open, which intern is not alowing warm operating coolant to enter the automatic transmission while under a load.
I believe allowing the vehicle to sit there and taking a longer time to warm up will increase wear and tear. In addition, allowing the car to warm up faster means the thermostat will open quicker and the car will reach operating temperature faster. In addition, the moving transmission parts will also be able to warm up, as will the wheel bearing and other moving parts which can only warm up while the car is moving. In addition, driving the car will increase the RPM's and get more oil to the moving parts.

This is an opinion and I can deny , nor can I deny without some specific proof from unbias testing. I believe if their was some documented proof backed from testing this would have weight but until then this can only be considered an opinion as what I feel by all fairness would also be considered my opinion.
I agree, there is no way to know until we get some research to back it up.

So obviously if a motor runs poorly cold then it needs to be warmed up or damage is being done by the rpm and parts being under a load. If its running poorly that means it is under a strain.
But, is it better to allow it to run longer if its running poorly or to warm it up and allow it to run better quicker? And, since it takes longer to warm up idling, wouldn't you then be allowing more strain on the engine? My Durango doesn't run any different when cold.

Yes but then we must consider why it runs poorly when cold, the strain the cold internals face and that added stress of the increased RPM under almost a 2 ton load.
My engine doesn't run poorly when cold. How are you calculating a 2 ton load?

Why is there an enriched air/fuel ratio then with fuel injection why was my Cadillac (with a modern Northstar motor) controlled by a computer thermostat to drop idle at operating temp if the GM engineer truely believed what he said then why did he design it like he did? It took a minimial 3 minutes to get to operating temp on summer days and more then 6 minutes in winter temps.
I wouldn't be surprised if it took that long just sitting there idling, but it may have only taken a minute or two if you had driven it to warm it up.

Can you deny its not considered a business los and hence not a write off? As for sales, would cars that run forever give reason for anyone to buy another car aswell?
I am not sure if a dealership can claim warranty work as tax write offs. If so, I wonder why Dodge was so reluctant to work on my car under warranty.

I agree aswell dude, these are my opinions as you have yours but without some serious unbias testing neither one of us have anyway to truely confirm our beliefs. Only judgements by what we feel works best for ourselves.

~Lou

Is this a manual or automatic transmission in this truck?
I agree, and we reached this conclusion a while back, but a few wish to keep the debate raging. But, I would bet the difference in wear and tear on an engine would be extremely small or non-existent.
 

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Bob, a Automatic transmission will warm up through the idling of the engine. The torque converter and pump are turning, pumping fluid through the system. The act of pumping the fluid creats heat. By no means will it get to operating temp, but if you have evre fired up a auto car below 0F and drove right off, the tranny will go, then alot of times disengage, like it's in neutral, then go again. It will do this untill the oil warms up sufficiently to keep pressure on the bands correctly. It happens to me every winter. So, let the engine idle for a minute, then it goes away.

And that is also why, in cold climates liek where I live, if your adding a tranny cooler to your winter driven vehicle, you plunb it in Before the rad cooler. That way, if the extra cooler cool's the fluid to much, then heat from the engine coolant will warm it back up to operating temp
 

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Bob, a Automatic transmission will warm up through the idling of the engine. The torque converter and pump are turning, pumping fluid through the system. The act of pumping the fluid creats heat. By no means will it get to operating temp, but if you have evre fired up a auto car below 0F and drove right off, the tranny will go, then alot of times disengage, like it's in neutral, then go again. It will do this untill the oil warms up sufficiently to keep pressure on the bands correctly. It happens to me every winter. So, let the engine idle for a minute, then it goes away.
How do you warm up the rotating assembly in the transmission while its not moving? This doesn't make any sense. In addition, you warm up the engine faster by driving it, and therefore, warm up the transmission faster as well. Once again I see you rely on anecdotal evidence to support your claims, but do you have any real research to back this up?

And that is also why, in cold climates liek where I live, if your adding a tranny cooler to your winter driven vehicle, you plunb it in Before the rad cooler. That way, if the extra cooler cool's the fluid to much, then heat from the engine coolant will warm it back up to operating temp
If the engine warms up faster, so does the transmission, and the rotating assembly.

Finally, some research:

"Temperature tests on engine coolant conducted by the Ontario Ministry of Transportation investigated whether idling was an effective way to warm up engines in cold weather. The tests measured the amount of time needed to raise the coolant temperature from -10oC to its normal operating temperature of 80oC. By driving the vehicle just after start-up (when the oil pressure is up), the coolant temperature rose to 80oC in just 12 minutes. By contrast, it took 30 minutes to raise the coolant temperature to that level while idling the vehicle. Driving away after start-up also gets the drive train working, warms up the differential oil and transmission oil, and warms up the tires so they can roll better. Idling can't do any of this, no matter how long you wait."

Source
 

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OK, next time it's -20F out, go hop in your auto ride and drive off, even slow. You will feel the tranny kicking in and out of gear. No Annectdotes about it, It's real life fact

And the fluid is allways circulating in your tranny. weather you are moving or not. circulating fluid heats up, do to the heat introduced through pumping in the pump and torque converter as well as frictional heat of the fluid flowing down the passages. Another "annectode" if you will. My TA is only summer driven, so I added a aftermarket tranny cooler, and removed the rad cooler from the tranny lines. Only using the aftermatket cooler, so no connection of tranny and engine to pass heat, other than belhousing and bolts. Not anything considerable. If I idle my engien for a while, say 20-30 min, like breaking in a new cam. Try to touch the tranny case.....Ouch, it's hot? Why, the internal parts never turned. The car never moved. Logic would dictate that the fluid heated up due to the reasons I have stated above

Oh, and to add, when I say warm up, I am not meaning idling untill the car is fully to operationg temp. My Grand Am would Never get to operating temp idling. I mean a few min, like 3 or 4 at 0F to let things start to heat and the oils to flow freer. When I say fire and go, that's exactly what I mean. I see alot of people here at the mill do that after work, -20C (-2F) just fire their car/truck and drive off, not even 30 sec warmup. That is abuse in my books
 

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OK, next time it's -20F out, go hop in your auto ride and drive off, even slow. You will feel the tranny kicking in and out of gear. No Annectdotes about it, It's real life fact
And the fluid is allways circulating in your tranny. weather you are moving or not. circulating fluid heats up, do to the heat introduced through pumping in the pump and torque converter as well as frictional heat of the fluid flowing down the passages. Another "annectode" if you will. My TA is only summer driven, so I added a aftermarket tranny cooler, and removed the rad cooler from the tranny lines. Only using the aftermatket cooler, so no connection of tranny and engine to pass heat, other than belhousing and bolts. Not anything considerable. If I idle my engien for a while, say 20-30 min, like breaking in a new cam. Try to touch the tranny case.....Ouch, it's hot? Why, the internal parts never turned. The car never moved. Logic would dictate that the fluid heated up due to the reasons I have stated above
You must have missed the study posted above. Will your differential also be hot to the touch? How about the wheel bearings? If you drive it for 10 minutes, will the transmission not be hot to the touch? In addition, using the exterior of the transmission to gauge interior temp is a poor method to say the least.
 

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I never said nothin aboput axle, wheel bearings. Those will OBVIOUSLY only warm after movement.

"addition, using the exterior of the transmission to gauge interior temp is a poor method to say the least"

So, how did the outside of the case get hot???? The Pan too? Certianly can't be the exhatst, cause other parts that are closer to the exhause are not hot???? If the oputside is warm, chances are pretty good that the inside is too. Unless normal physics doesn't apply this late at night
 

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Ok, this is a definite start but this in a way adds to the debate.

1) Is this an unbias test being that it was conducted by the energy dept. without watchdog. Considering they were supporters of the 2 minute idling law and was scouring for reason to get the law passed.

2) This was a test on coolant temperature. I have no doubt as this is obvious without question. My quarry with the topic is wear and tear on internals at the higher RPM's under an almost 2 ton load (pulling or pushing the weight of the vehicle, the pasenger(s) and the extra weight of the fluids and misc.) until the optimal temp is reached.

For me what I question is whether its better to take the time to wait at a lower RPM under no strain of load to avoid excessive wear or whether its better to just go without waiting for a quicker warm up even under higher RPM'S at a 2 ton load and there is still no excessive wear or tear.

In other words either way there will be a warm up, we know that and ofcourse it would be faster under higher RPM'S but would it be better on the engine at lower RPM'S to wait under no load or would it be better or have no difference at higher RPM'S and under a 2 ton load.

~Lou

BTW Bob good find on that study...... I only hope members can post proof to support or dismiss this topic. We all pretty much gave our opinions so any further discussion would be best by posting proof. Bob is already one step further proofing support of this topic.
 

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Ok, this is a definite start but this in a way adds to the debate.

1) Is this an unbias test being that it was conducted by the energy dept. without watchdog. Considering they were supporters of the 2 minute idling law and was scouring for reason to get the law passed.
Good point Lou, and this of course is open for debate, but at least its a step in the right direction.

For me what I question is whether its better to wait at a lower RPM under no strain of load to avoid excessive wear or whether its better to just go without waiting for warm up even under higher RPM'S at a 2 ton load and there is still no excessive wear or tear.
Aren't the RPM's already raised by the choke on carbs and the enriched fuel mixture on Fuel injection cars? Also, how is it a two ton load, the vehicle is on wheels.

In other words either way there will be a warm up, we know that and ofcourse it would be faster under higher RPM'S but would it be better on the engine at loer RPM'S to wait under no load or would it be better or have no difference at higher RPM'S and under a 2 ton load.

~Lou

BTW Bob good find on that study...... I only hope members can post proof to support or dismiss this topic. We all pretty much gave our opinions so any further discussion would be best by posting proof. Bob is already one step further proofing support of this topic.
I agree Lou, I am researching this more to see what else I can find.
 

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Well heres something for you guys. Every LS1 has a little valvetrain noise when running. (Have the source if needed). Its really loud when you first start up the car but when it warms up it gets quiet. So I went on LS1tech and they say its fine because the oil is cold and has not broke down yet to get inside the roller rockers to lube them thats why the ticking is louder when cold and goes quiet when warm because the oil breaks down to lub them.
 
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