I am a bit confused. The subframe connectors connect the rear frame to the front subframe. They are usually welded. But, what does that have to do with the springs?

Is he talking the rear leaf springs? Does he mean the rear frame rails?

 

I spoke with him brielfy on the phone this morning. He told me that it does indeed need springs but he wouldn't suggest replacing them until the subframe connectors were replaced. he did not specify which springs he meant. I'll be heading over there in a couple of hours so I will get the scoop in detail.

If it is something with the rear frame rails...is that something that can be repaired ?

 

You definately need more info.

yes, the rear frame rails are available for replacement or maybe can be repaired.

 

I asked the guy if it was the subframe connectors. He said yes. I asked then asked him how the frame rails looked and he said that's what he was talking about. Mentioned something about they were rusty and you could cut them out and replace them with tubes or something ?

Also, the coil springs in the front are bad, not the leaf springs.

 

I think you need a different mechanic.

For one, if the sub frame connectors are rusty, so what. Who cares. I mean, the car never had them from the factory. They could be removed and the car would be the way it came. those are not needed unless you want to stiffen the car.

How does he know your front springs are bad? What leads him to want to replace them?

I would like to see a picture of those sub frame connectors. Also, I would be wanting another opinion on those front springs. This all isn't sounding right.

 

If your mechanic can't name the parts correctly that he thinks needs to replaced then he's not qualified to work on your car. Sub-frame connectors and rear frame rails are two totally different things, pick your car up before it gets bubbafied.

 

Picked it up last night. The reason I had the springs looked at is because I noticed a lean, or sag on one side in the front.

So he told me that the spring needed replaced, but that he wouldn't suggest doing it until the subframe connectors, or frame rails were replaced. Which makes no sense to me because like earlier mentioned sub frame connectors are after market add ons..and if the frame rails are in the back what bearing would that have on the front springs being replaced.

Needless to say I'm having another place do the exhaust, and then take it to a guy in town who can accurately access the suspension.

 

Ok, the lean could be a matter of the front sub frame bushings being the issue as much as anything else. Now, maybe that is part of the problem. But again, the other guy wasn't very clear on anything which is scary if he really wants to work on the car.

 

Agreed. The front subframe could need work or even replacement is the car has ever been wrecked. But generally speaking, that would be rare. There are components like A-arms and bushings, as well as the bushings that join the whole assembly to the unibody, that could be replaced to correct most any minor issue. The rear frame rails might have road cancer as well, meaning that they would not adequately support the spring mounts. But 2nd Gen subframe connectors (which join the front subframe to the rear frame rails, effectively creating a 'chassis' to augment the unibody structure) were never factory installed. They come in weld-in or bolt-on varieties. Replacing the subframe connectors would not have anything to do with replacing springs, bushings or mounting pads.

 

Alright..so I got to take a good look at the belly of the car today while it was on the lift. The rear frame rails were indeed in bad shape. The drivers side is almost completely rotted through in some spots. The e-brake cable is broken in half and the previous owner had tucked it into something so it would not drag. The drivers side lower control arm is rusted pretty bad and the bushing on the passenger side lower control arm is in bad shape. Also, some of the tie rods in the front are bent, with rust as well.

I also noticed that the coil springs in the front had a large screw or bolt wedged between the coil. The exhaust guy said people do that to add clearance...but it most def did not look right to me.

 

Sounding like you need a bit more than exhaust work.

The good news is all of those parts are available. The bad news is, it is going to be quite a project. However one I would do in order to have a safe car.

As far as the bent bars, I am assuming you mean sway bars and such. They do tend to have some odd looking bends, but that is normal. I am hoping you don't mean the front sub frames. If so, again, you can get them.

So, looking like you have a project. Keep us up to date.

 

I get that the front springs and control arm bushings should be replaced first. This will get the front of the car level. Then the rear frame rails should be replaced and any rear leaf spring bushings, sway bushings next. Now that everything is back to "stock'. Put in the sub frame connectors to tie the back of the car to the front.

Your choice of front coil springs is crucial. There are a million different ones to choose from because there were so many different car and engine combos available over the years. ie., big engine, no A/C , small engine with A/C, etc. and every other combo.

If you want to go factory style, duplicating the 78 WS6 suspension is a pretty good bet. You can get those spring from Moog. The part no. is 8002. Those will be really great if you have that basic combo, a heavy late seventies TA with a 400 with A/C. Or you can go after market. I just bought some springs from H-O Racing. Part numberSB43 . They are designed for 560lbs. ,designed for a 3900 lb, TA cost $179-. They are made just specially for H-O Racing for them The wire diameter is 7.5 -in dia. (Can't wait to get them installed.!!!!) That is a really big diameter which means they are really strong. Most "car"springs are around .670 " diamater. There is one spring that was actually for Chevy pick up trucks that a lot of people like. The Moog number is 6450. The diameter is .828 inches and they are rated at 406 lbs. You can spend hours on this stuff. Hotchkis makes them too.




I'm looking forward to installing my new Hotchkis subframe connectors. They cost about $300 with new bushings and are the ones used on the Year One Burt Reynolds Trans Ams.