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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys and gals,

I drove home as normal today, and because it was nice I had my T-tops off. When I was getting the T-tops out of the trunk, I noticed the smell of gasoline. Being curious, I Looked under my car for any drips. No drips on the ground. Then I looked up, and found this...

These first five photos detail what I saw. I swabbed a bit of it with my finger, and it didn't smell like oil or gasoline... it felt thick too, but that might have been the grime already on the bottom of the car... Shoe Tire Automotive tire Automotive lighting Wheel

Vertebrate Automotive tire Plant Mammal Tire

Tire Wheel Automotive lighting Automotive tire Leg

Wheel Tire Vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive tire

Tire Wheel Automotive lighting Automotive tire Road surface

These next two pictures are something else I noticed, and may or may not be associate with my e-brake not being functional what-so-ever...

Plant Automotive tire Tree Font Grass

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Tread Motor vehicle

Anyway, If you guys know what you are looking at and can help me figure out what the implications of these two things are, that would be great. I will have to drive about 24 miles over the next 30 hours, divided into about two 6 mi. trips and four 3 mi. trips, so it would be nice to know whether driving is fine, or whether damage is being done, etc. Sorry 'bout crappy resolutions, but it is as good as I can take with a crappy phone.

Thanks,

Sam
 

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Under the drivers door is a junction for the fuel lines. My "raw fuel" smell was coming from there. The vapor line had a rubber coupler that rotted away where the lines go to steel leaving the line open to the environment. After seeing the state of that coupling, I traced the lines to the fuel pump. There is rubber tubing there too to mate the metal lines to the fuel pump. Mine are near perished. I suggest you look there, the wetness you see could very well be fuel. I'm nearly positive the lines to the fuel pump are right above there.

Given that "wet" photo, i wouldn't start it until i had it all figured out.

Pictures are nice, but "looks like" is nothing to go by. TOUCH IT, smell your fingers. Fuel? ...there isn't "engine oil" anywhere near that location. You got the brake lines, fuel lines, and the gear oil in the rear-diff. ...well, the shocks have fluid as well, but I doubt a blown shock would throw it's fluid so far away.

do investigate further, *please*.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Under the drivers door is a junction for the fuel lines. My "raw fuel" smell was coming from there. The vapor line had a rubber coupler that rotted away where the lines go to steel leaving the line open to the environment. After seeing the state of that coupling, I traced the lines to the fuel pump. There is rubber tubing there too to mate the metal lines to the fuel pump. Mine are near perished. I suggest you look there, the wetness you see could very well be fuel. I'm nearly positive the lines to the fuel pump are right above there.

Given that "wet" photo, i wouldn't start it until i had it all figured out.

Pictures are nice, but "looks like" is nothing to go by. TOUCH IT, smell your fingers. Fuel? ...there isn't "engine oil" anywhere near that location. You got the brake lines, fuel lines, and the gear oil in the rear-diff. ...well, the shocks have fluid as well, but I doubt a blown shock would throw it's fluid so far away.

do investigate further, *please*.
OK, I got way down under and touched the wetness real good. Didn't smell like fuel at all. Got a picture of what seems to be the origin - coupler in the brake lines. The stuff was flammable, by the way (I tested by getting some wet grime on a metal stake.) I am not sure which, or both, coupler it comes from; lines in couplers lead to rear brakes. I am also not sure why there is smooth metal right above the couplers, and in the middle of the mess. Maybe it squirts the brake juice with high pressure right there when I brake? Is it safe to drive? I gotta leave in about 30 minutes or so, and shouldn't have to do any heavy braking (just a 6 mi. trip).

Automotive tire Wood Road surface Gas Tints and shades

By the way, the "leak" is on the right (passenger side). I did check out the couplers under the drivers door (about where the mirror is, give or take a little) for the fuel lines - they looked old, but they were still "intact" as far as I could tell. I can trace the fuel lines back to the pump/tank, but I will need a few minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I checked out the fuel lines on the left (driver side) - all looks OK (no leaks/wet spots).
 

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...so, good news and bad news then. Glad it's not fuel, but, I still wouldn't drive it, even if it was a manual and I knew I could lock up the rear with a huge down-shift. If this is an automatic, you can not rely on a down-shift to immediately take effect, auto's do what they want when they want. ...and the parking/e-brake isn't very strong on the best of days.

If fluid is getting out, air is getting in to replace it.

The abs pump might lock out the rear lines if it sees air in the system, but, again, i wouldn't trust that to happen. Not even to back out the driveway.

I'm not familiar with any couplers like that on the brake lines, I have steel from the master cylinder to within a foot of the calpiers, and where the line does go from steel to rubber, it has a connection much like at the master cylinder.

Maybe those couplers are just "spacers" to keep the lines from rubbing on something or eachother, I honestly don't know. I would have to experiment: clean underside real well, allow to dry, cut a piece of cardboard and wrap it around the lines, start engine, pump brakes. If the cardboard is wet "inside" it's those lines, if it's wet "outside" it's not. ...that should at least give you an idea of a more specific area to inspect.

I'm no expert, I was just weighing in on the saftey question and potential sources. Still though, please do not drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Lots of new information - I did some more looking, but this time not when it was dark outside.

Those "couplers" are spacers - you were right Tony - and the other thing that makes this more fun is that those "lines" are the e-brake lines. that means there isn't fluid in them, just the cable. I wrote all over these pictures so you can understand what I was seeing/thinking and why I wanted to show them to you guys; they are labeled at the top or the bottom with comments all throughout.

Human body Gesture Art Tree Wood

Automotive tire Jaw Gesture Font Auto part

Automotive tire Organism Font Terrestrial plant Water

Automotive tire Font Asphalt Automotive wheel system Road surface

Vertebrate Automotive tire Jaw Working animal Organism

Astronomical object Electric blue Space Font Science

Jaw Art Artifact Font Metal

Font Audio equipment Circle Number Wood

So from these pictures, it would seem that A) my right e-brake doesn't work because there is no lever in the assembly, B) the fluid did not come from the spacer or the line that holds the e-brake cable, C) maybe the fluid is from the differential?

After some research, it is apparent that brake fluid is rather corrosive, and destroys paint very quickly. Hence the spot of bare, clean metal in one of my earlier pictures. This was confirmed by looking at where "I swabbed a bit of it with my finger, and it didn't smell like oil or gasoline... it felt thick too, but that might have been the grime already on the bottom of the car..." - I noticed that I could now see bare metal in a nice finger-pad sized oval. Dragging my nail next to the circle in the same patch of 'wet' looking area and I expose bare metal.

Cleaning the area is what I planed on doing, but I am out of WD-40 :doh: and while I have brake parts cleaner, it says not to get spray on paint, it is heavier than air (sinks), is toxic to your health (skin, eyes, and breathing), and I don't have the car lifted up at all, so to use this cleaner I would get it all over myself. :ermm: I could use some water from a hose/spray bottle...? (that is what my buddy who works in auto tech suggested for cleaning). Sites online said that when cleaning brake fluid off of paint, you can't be abrasive (you have to dab, not scrub), but I feel like the paint that is already 'wet' is long gone.

If you guys have suggestions on the next steps, that would be great. I don't want to ruin anymore of the paint than is already trashed, but to figure out where this stuff comes from the fluid needs to be cleaned.
 

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Slinging gear oil out of the diff yoke. The oil is coming through the small gaps in the pinion shaft splines. Take the DS off, and the big yoke nut....put some "pookie" aka rtv on it, install nut...tight the *hit out of it with a ratchet/socket...install DS...proceed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Slinging gear oil out of the diff yoke. The oil is coming through the small gaps in the pinion shaft splines. Take the DS off, and the big yoke nut....put some "pookie" aka rtv on it, install nut...tight the *hit out of it with a ratchet/socket...install DS...proceed.
Okay, Derrick,

I found me some good rtv (Permatex Ultra Black) to use, but I don't know whathe DS and yoke and pinion shaft are...? I think I understood what you said to be that oil comes out of the space between the differential and the universal joint. Beyond that I need some clarification.

I sprayed the differential fluid with WD-40. Will wash area with water (spray bottle) and a rag (drying/cleaning) in 10 min.

Thanks for the help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Washed and dried; much under-body paint has suffered (in the sling range, that is).
 

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I figured out what one of those words meant...

DS = drive shaft

I also found the DS info in the big book (section 4A-4B). I know how to take the DS off now, I'll figure the rest out eventually. :p
 

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I also found this when I was peaking around underneath...

Hood Automotive lighting Automotive tire Vehicle Motor vehicle

Hood Cloud Automotive tire Sky Automotive lighting

This might be the gas smell?

ZumpTA, on 04 Nov 2015 - 6:43 PM, said:snapback.png

Under the drivers door is a junction for the fuel lines. My "raw fuel" smell was coming from there. The vapor line had a rubber coupler that rotted away where the lines go to steel leaving the line open to the environment. After seeing the state of that coupling, I traced the lines to the fuel pump. There is rubber tubing there too to mate the metal lines to the fuel pump. Mine are near perished. I suggest you look there, the wetness you see could very well be fuel. I'm nearly positive the lines to the fuel pump are right above there.
I am not sure which line is the vapor one, but it sure doesn't look like tab A is all the way in slot B...

Back to the main issue, I just wanted to say I will be working on taking the drive shaft off tomorrow (after I get some "pookie") and do the other stuff I kinda understand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
A note on the missing parking brake lever - it looks like I will have to find the lever off of a car, because they are not a re-produced part, and there are no ebay listings... Part 26 is what I need...

Font Auto part Art Parallel Drawing

Image is from WholesaleGMPartsOnline, part title: "LEVER. Parking Brake Shoe".
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It has been raining since Monday - car is jacked up in the driveway... Will get around to putting the diff. cover back on with sealer probably tomorrow. I'll post some pictures once I get it all done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This will take a few posts, but I am going to eventually detail my rear differential fluid change with some pictures in case anyone has to do themselves. The short summary is that I did and everything works. I fixed my e-brakes, they work and I tested it out. I had an issue with filling my gas up - it stopped after 4 gal. when I knew I could take at least 10-12 gal. I had it on the auto, high pressure notch. I tried again by hand - it shut off a 1/3 of a gal. later. I put a little more in, same thing. I decided to take my change and mess with around with it some other time. The reason I make that decision is the last time I filled up, I got 6 gal. in when I realized that I was no longer putting gas into the car - it was coming back out of the hole that the pump goes into. The gas tank was not full - I proceeded to take the nozzle out, put it back in, and fill it up another 2 gal. by hand (that is when my $ ran out). I looked into this issue, (this article sums up some of the things I looked into), and it seems according to the diagrams on pages 6C-2, 6C-15, and 6C-16 that my suspects are:

a) evaporative emissive canister (right of the filler line that goes from quarter panel to gas tank)

b) evaporative emissive line (from canister to meet up with the rest of the lines (is the bottom most line) to a little rubber thingy to a line that I don't know where it goes)

c) fuel tank vent valve (above gas tank)

basically if (a) isn't filtering correctly it will prevent adequate pressure exchange, if (b) is clogged then it will prevent adequate pressure exchange, and if (c) doesn't operate at the right pressures (or if doesn't work period) then it will prevent adequate pressure exchange. Inadequate pressure exchange will cause the sensor in the pump's nozzle to go off, killing the gas. Another alternative is some creapy-crawly got into my filler tube and built some now very flammable egg sack that impedes to flow of expensive 93 liquid fun...errr, I mean gas. I guess the tube could have collapsed some how... some how? Maybe. Any advice on actually getting a look at the tube/emissive canister? tests to do to see if the stuff works? I don't have any fancy equipment... the service manual was spouting all sorts of cool GM ###### this and GM tool that... I got an air compressor that doesn't hold it's charge, a bicycle pump, a hand siphon, some duck tape, a bit of time and not a lot of money, and I've got a great community of people like you. :) I'll get around to posting my picures and write up on the diff./e-brakes, but that will happen later on. Let me know if there is anything I can sneak a peak at during the week to look into.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I cleaned out the fuel tank vent valve (non-replaceable two way valve, white plastic, above rear-end, driver side) with soap, warm water, and a toothbrush. I couldn't really test it cause I couldn't take the main piece off, but I made sure all the components fit nice on re-assembly and everything was cleaned thoroughly. I was going to mess around with the EVAP canister and the control valve that goes between the tank and the canister, but There wasn't really room to reach anything, and I didn't want to take my rear wheel off cause I need to drive it. I was able to go to the gas station yesterday and fill it up a little more than 8 gal. (all my $20.00 cash would get) without interruption. Three comments: the pump I used previously had some yellow cones blocking it off from service; second, there was no hiss from the gas cap when I took it off; and third, I didn't shove the nozzle way deep - I put it in about 2.5 inches.
 
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