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[Resolved] Need help


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#1 Navybrat

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Posted 21 July 2006 - 02:45 PM

Ok i bought a used 91 Firebird 3.1v6 ran fine for the frist day i was able to drive it that night (after about 50 miles or so put on it) it dies in a parking lot and would not stay running it would crank fire and die over and over. I have to trailer the thing home at 3am go to get it off the trail for grins i try to fire it run and runs fine it warms up and just shuts off like i turned the key off and it goes back to the crank fire die. It has 200,000+ on the motor and alot of the electronics under the hood have been replaced i checked the fuel filter and thats fine brand new it is makeing 40psi to 50 on the fuel rails so the pump is fine and when i let it set cool and try to fire it runs till it warms up then dies like i turned the key off i have dissconected the electric egr valve and no diff i can't find any vacum leaks i can sit in front of it and use a spray bottle to squrit fuel in the throttle body and it runs pulses with the spray from the bottle but runs. Witch says injectors but it runs fine in the morning when it is cool gets warm and dies. I have gone over every thing i can think of and this thing is kicking my ass and laughing at me. Any help short of pulling the motor and finding some C4
Stock front to back(not for long) plans in the works.. Full time Student ITT-Tech C.E.E.T.. Proud father of a baby girl..

#2

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Posted 21 July 2006 - 03:20 PM

Try listening to the injectors with a metal rod right when it warms up and dies. See if the injectors cut off right before it dies. You'll here a little clicking noise from it spurting gas into the engine. It could be the the computer doing something wierd when it goes into a closed loop system. Its hard to track down eletrical faults. :(

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Posted 21 July 2006 - 03:49 PM

check all your fuses also i had a bad fuse in my silverado and it made my truck do that.

#4 Navybrat

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    Second is a 1991 3.1 paired with a 4L60
    Plans for the 91 in works
  • Year: 1991
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  • Engine: 3.1 V6
  • Transmission: 4L60

Posted 21 July 2006 - 07:23 PM

ok i listened to the pods and they do die just before the car does. I will replace the major fuses and see is thats it god i hope so and i am going to be so pissed i looked at them and none looked blown
Stock front to back(not for long) plans in the works.. Full time Student ITT-Tech C.E.E.T.. Proud father of a baby girl..

#5 Navybrat

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  • Engine: 3.1 V6
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Posted 22 July 2006 - 07:24 AM

no go fuses check outthis is really driving me threw the roof i am going to pull the top of the intake and check all the connections for the injectors and every thing it seems to be heat related the motor cold it run hot it shuts off what comes online when it warms up that would shut it down???
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#6

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 09:39 AM

I think this is applicable to your year model, when you first start your car the computer runs in an open loop system until the engine warms up. Open loop poors more fuel into the engine than normal and ignores some sensors. After the car warms up it switches over to a closed loop system which turns all sensors on and uses readings from different sensors to determine air/fuel ratio. I think it is an electrical problem since you stated previously that a lot of the electronics had been replaced. A question I forgot to ask earlier is Have you check to see if the computer is throwing any codes?

#7 Navybrat

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  • Engine: 3.1 V6
  • Transmission: 4L60

Posted 23 July 2006 - 11:49 AM

no codes had a old o2 senser rich
the car does not even click to closed loop i have my dynostics tool pluged into it and watched it for any thing that changed when it died and it stayed open loop didn't kick to clsd. i will look into tricking the comp to stay in open (i know there is a way) and see if it stays running if it does i think the brain might be going so one of the sensers that comes on-line when it hits closed is shutting it off i need a list of what came on-line when it goes clsd loop that would shut it down if it was wrong so i could look at them. I poped the top off the intake and alot of the intake bolts were loose so i titened what ones i could get to think i am going to pull the whole top end apart and go threw it bolt by bolt so it will be button tight.

also another problem i have is it had a hole in it when i got it i was going to sort it out the next day but it died that night so i could sort out what that was
Stock front to back(not for long) plans in the works.. Full time Student ITT-Tech C.E.E.T.. Proud father of a baby girl..

#8

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 09:25 AM

also another problem i have is it had a hole in it when i got it i was going to sort it out the next day but it died that night so i could sort out what that was

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sorry, but what hole you are talking about.

#9 Navybrat

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    First was a 1989 with a 2.8 60 paired with a 4L60
    Second is a 1991 3.1 paired with a 4L60
    Plans for the 91 in works
  • Year: 1991
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 3.1 V6
  • Transmission: 4L60

Posted 25 July 2006 - 09:54 AM

When you floor it and it takes 2-3 sec for the motor to respond to the input (hole) i could floor it and let go and then it would rev and come back down. but it still won't run and i can't figur it out short of pulling the motor apart and puting it back together again
Stock front to back(not for long) plans in the works.. Full time Student ITT-Tech C.E.E.T.. Proud father of a baby girl..

#10 Navybrat

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    Second is a 1991 3.1 paired with a 4L60
    Plans for the 91 in works
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  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 3.1 V6
  • Transmission: 4L60

Posted 05 August 2006 - 08:48 AM

I am going to go find a brain out of a junk yard for my motor i got my hands on a factory manuel and i have tested every thing out and it all points to the ecm acting up hey 43 for a quick test no work and i can return it thats not bad just need to know what years did the 3.1 come in??? that don't use a MAF sensor
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#11

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 06:23 PM

did you check the egr valve. Mine 91 3.1 was doing the same thing and the egr was the problem.

#12

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 06:37 PM

did you check the egr valve. Mine 91 3.1 was doing the same thing and  the egr was the problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I would sugest that you clean out the egr passages with throtle body cleaner
late
r

rick

#13 Navybrat

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    Second is a 1991 3.1 paired with a 4L60
    Plans for the 91 in works
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  • Engine: 3.1 V6
  • Transmission: 4L60

Posted 07 August 2006 - 05:53 PM

I got it running well my dad did when i had the brain out to check numbers he pluged it back in to go over the cr and tryed to fire it and it ran for like 1:30 then died he fired it back up hold it at 3K and then let it out and it has run since. No clue what it was i am going to dump a bottle of seafoam in it when i can and run it threw it
Stock front to back(not for long) plans in the works.. Full time Student ITT-Tech C.E.E.T.. Proud father of a baby girl..

#14 Navybrat

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    Second is a 1991 3.1 paired with a 4L60
    Plans for the 91 in works
  • Year: 1991
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 3.1 V6
  • Transmission: 4L60

Posted 08 August 2006 - 10:10 AM

ok the problem is back after the car sat for one night this is really tweeking me i and half temped to eat 126$ and let a dealer tell me what is wrong and i will fix it i have gone threw that motor stem to stern and can not for the life of me figur out what is wrong. I unpluged the brain trying to get a new one it sat unpluged for about 2 3 days and my dad put it in it fired ran for a min 30 and died for the S**ts of it he fired it held it at 3k for a bit and let it back down slowly and it ran fine all day then it sat over night and stoped running again it won't even idle i checked and cleaned the iac motor ports and all i can't check the PCV valve it won't run long enough the tps checks out both temp sensors check out the O2 sensor seemed alittle wack nutted yesterday but that won't effect idle it does not look at it in open loop. I have no freeking clue on WTF is up i am eather going to dealer it for a few days or replace the whole motor and find some dinamite and watch what i have go up so it never plages any1 again
Stock front to back(not for long) plans in the works.. Full time Student ITT-Tech C.E.E.T.. Proud father of a baby girl..

#15

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 10:21 AM

The dinamite fix doesn't sound like a bad idea! :waitasec:

#16 Navybrat

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    Second is a 1991 3.1 paired with a 4L60
    Plans for the 91 in works
  • Year: 1991
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 3.1 V6
  • Transmission: 4L60

Posted 13 August 2006 - 07:47 AM

GOT IT GOT IT GOT IT

:25help: the injectors

i had 3 bad injectors replaced them and it runs like a dream

:beer: for every1
Stock front to back(not for long) plans in the works.. Full time Student ITT-Tech C.E.E.T.. Proud father of a baby girl..

#17 FBN Firebird Nation

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 07:56 AM

Good to hear you figured it out, and thanks for letting us know what was causing it. :25help:




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