79 Firebird floor sound/heat insulation - Second Generation Pontiac Firebird (1970 - 1981) - Firebird Nation

Jump to content


FirebirdNation.com is the premier Pontiac Firebird forum on the internet. Supporting Members do not see the above ads.
Photo
- - - - -

79 Firebird floor sound/heat insulation


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 one79firebirdguy

one79firebirdguy

    Firebird Newbie

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Linwood
  • City:Whiteville
  • State or Province:NC
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 4.9l 301
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 19 May 2020 - 12:14 PM

Hi all, I'm needing to buy floor sound and heat insulation for the 79 firebird. From what I've read "Dynamat" seems to be the best so I'm going to go with that. I've seen pictures where it appears there are just patches here and there and then I've seen some where the entire floor from front to back is covered. The entire floor is what I would prefer but I can't find the right kit for that. I'm new at this so I guess I could be missing it somehow? Any suggestions or help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! 



#2 Aus78Formula

Aus78Formula

    Firebird Mechanic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Ben
  • City:Sydney
  • State or Province:Other
  • Country:Australia
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird Formula
  • Engine: 403 Olds
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 20 May 2020 - 03:32 AM

As sound insulation from vibrations just the smaller pieces in the center of larger panels does the trick. Anything further is just to keep it neat and smooth. The kits come in size of coverage panels and for different applications for acoustic and some heat insulation. They are still cut to size.

#3 78yellowta

78yellowta

    Firebird Tire Changer

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Rick
  • City:Princeton
  • State or Province:TX
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Trans Am
  • Engine: 400 Pontiac
  • Transmission: TH350 Auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 05:44 AM

"Dynamat" is good.  However, I also added a layer of insulation from Home Depot on top.  Probably not needed, but, I just feel better having the extra thermal barrier.  My A/C has to work hard enough to cool the car as it is.

 

If you are going to be installing new carpet, as well, I have another tip.  I learned this the hard way.  You will, of course, have to make holes for the seat, and seat belt bolts.  My recommendation is to start with the holes closest to the transmission hump.  Position the carpet where you want it.  Locate and cut the hole for the seat bolts.  Put a bolt into the hole to hold the carpet in place.  Then move to the outside bolts.  Without doing this the carpet moves around while you are locating and cutting the holes and you will wind up having to enlarge some holes to get the seats in.  Or, you will have bulges that you won't be able to straighten out.  

 

I am an "expert" at how to do it next time.

 

PS.  I ordered the Dynamite set for the floor.  It came in sections.  Front floor, rear floor, under rear seat, etc.  The problem is that I got two front floors and no rear floor.  The little sections are cut into odd sizes to fit a variety of cars, I suppose.  Don't panic.  Like the previous post said, you don't really need to cover the entire floor.  Just trim what you have to fit where you need it.  It will be ok.


Edited by 78yellowta, 21 May 2020 - 05:45 AM.


#4 NOT A TA

NOT A TA

    Firebird Mechanic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 997 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:John
  • City:Delray Beach
  • State or Province:FL
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1970
  • Make: pontiac
  • Model: Esprit
  • Engine: 400
  • Transmission: auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 08:40 AM

My $0.02 and worth what you pay for it.

 

As mentioned by Ben, only the middle of the panels needs Dynamat. It keeps the sheet metal from acting as a sounding board. Insulation using matting with air gaps like the fibrous types helps more with heat than the tar based mats. Be very careful using home construction products in vehicle interiors because they aren't made for the temps car interiors see. They may release gases that aren't good for you, be combustible at lower temps, etc.

 

Heat shields, lava rock, and other products under the car floor will help more with engine & exhaust heat. I'm trying a fiberglass/aluminum  DEI product on the inside of my firewall this time because it's lighter than the stock firewall pad but I doubt it will insulate as well, I'll find out though!

 

Old guy tips: Locate holes for seats and seat belts with an awl and then melt the hole through the carpet with a soldering iron. This way you're not trying to drill or punch holes and the melting action keeps the carpet from fraying and making bolt installation difficult. Proper ventilation required. As mentioned previously by Rick work from trans hump out toward doors. Use a heat gun held under carpet to heat it and then hold the carpet in place as it cools. It will hold it's shape as it cools makes your job look like a factory install tight into the curves. Yes they heat & press the carpet so it kinda matches the floor but with a heat gun you can really make it look very nice. Patience is the key. Think of the time with the heat gun and tucking as time you would have wasted making bolt holes.


Edited by NOT A TA, 21 May 2020 - 08:42 AM.

John Paige

Lab-14.com


#5 one79firebirdguy

one79firebirdguy

    Firebird Newbie

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Linwood
  • City:Whiteville
  • State or Province:NC
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 4.9l 301
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 03:44 PM

As sound insulation from vibrations just the smaller pieces in the center of larger panels does the trick. Anything further is just to keep it neat and smooth. The kits come in size of coverage panels and for different applications for acoustic and some heat insulation. They are still cut to size.


Thank you!

"Dynamat" is good.  However, I also added a layer of insulation from Home Depot on top.  Probably not needed, but, I just feel better having the extra thermal barrier.  My A/C has to work hard enough to cool the car as it is.
 
If you are going to be installing new carpet, as well, I have another tip.  I learned this the hard way.  You will, of course, have to make holes for the seat, and seat belt bolts.  My recommendation is to start with the holes closest to the transmission hump.  Position the carpet where you want it.  Locate and cut the hole for the seat bolts.  Put a bolt into the hole to hold the carpet in place.  Then move to the outside bolts.  Without doing this the carpet moves around while you are locating and cutting the holes and you will wind up having to enlarge some holes to get the seats in.  Or, you will have bulges that you won't be able to straighten out.  
 
I am an "expert" at how to do it next time.
 
PS.  I ordered the Dynamite set for the floor.  It came in sections.  Front floor, rear floor, under rear seat, etc.  The problem is that I got two front floors and no rear floor.  The little sections are cut into odd sizes to fit a variety of cars, I suppose.  Don't panic.  Like the previous post said, you don't really need to cover the entire floor.  Just trim what you have to fit where you need it.  It will be ok.



Wow, lots of great info! Thanks so much!!

My $0.02 and worth what you pay for it.
 
As mentioned by Ben, only the middle of the panels needs Dynamat. It keeps the sheet metal from acting as a sounding board. Insulation using matting with air gaps like the fibrous types helps more with heat than the tar based mats. Be very careful using home construction products in vehicle interiors because they aren't made for the temps car interiors see. They may release gases that aren't good for you, be combustible at lower temps, etc.
 
Heat shields, lava rock, and other products under the car floor will help more with engine & exhaust heat. I'm trying a fiberglass/aluminum  DEI product on the inside of my firewall this time because it's lighter than the stock firewall pad but I doubt it will insulate as well, I'll find out though!
 
Old guy tips: Locate holes for seats and seat belts with an awl and then melt the hole through the carpet with a soldering iron. This way you're not trying to drill or punch holes and the melting action keeps the carpet from fraying and making bolt installation difficult. Proper ventilation required. As mentioned previously by Rick work from trans hump out toward doors. Use a heat gun held under carpet to heat it and then hold the carpet in place as it cools. It will hold it's shape as it cools makes your job look like a factory install tight into the curves. Yes they heat & press the carpet so it kinda matches the floor but with a heat gun you can really make it look very nice. Patience is the key. Think of the time with the heat gun and tucking as time you would have wasted making bolt holes.


Awesome info! Thank you very much!

#6 one79firebirdguy

one79firebirdguy

    Firebird Newbie

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Linwood
  • City:Whiteville
  • State or Province:NC
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 4.9l 301
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 03:53 PM

I am mostly worried about heat. I had a 81 trans am back in the day when I was young. No ac, t-top and that was the hottest car I've ever been in. Just ridiculous heat flow from everywhere it seemed lol. This 79 I got has ac but I believe it doesn't work. Haven't tried gasing it up yet. Having trouble getting good air flow through the vents and can't really tell but I never hear the compressor cycling. Just changed heater core, new blower and motor. Also replaced the resistor under the hood and it has gotten a little better. Before I couldn't feel any air out of the vents. Thanks again for all the responses and help! You guys rock!

#7 NOT A TA

NOT A TA

    Firebird Mechanic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 997 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:John
  • City:Delray Beach
  • State or Province:FL
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1970
  • Make: pontiac
  • Model: Esprit
  • Engine: 400
  • Transmission: auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 05:06 PM

I am mostly worried about heat. I had a 81 trans am back in the day when I was young. No ac, t-top and that was the hottest car I've ever been in. Just ridiculous heat flow from everywhere it seemed lol. This 79 I got has ac but I believe it doesn't work. Haven't tried gasing it up yet. Having trouble getting good air flow through the vents and can't really tell but I never hear the compressor cycling. Just changed heater core, new blower and motor. Also replaced the resistor under the hood and it has gotten a little better. Before I couldn't feel any air out of the vents. Thanks again for all the responses and help! You guys rock!

The heater core is active ALL the time in most of the 2nd gens. So even when the blower is running at the lowest speed (it never shuts completely off) when everything is turned off there's still air blowing around the heater core usually because the seals are long gone. Only the 70-71's had the vacuum operated water shut off valve on AC equipped models. Stopping the flow through the heater core helps considerably and allows the AC to work better because it isn't fighting the heater core.

 

There are several ways to do it. A simple ball valve, an electric valve you can control with a special switch or the heater controls, or a stock type vacuum valve like the late 1st gens, early 2nd gens and some other Pontiac models had connected to the AC vacuum system.

 

And ya T tops in the sun are hot.


Edited by NOT A TA, 21 May 2020 - 05:07 PM.

John Paige

Lab-14.com


#8 one79firebirdguy

one79firebirdguy

    Firebird Newbie

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Linwood
  • City:Whiteville
  • State or Province:NC
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 4.9l 301
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 05:30 PM

The heater core is active ALL the time in most of the 2nd gens. So even when the blower is running at the lowest speed (it never shuts completely off) when everything is turned off there's still air blowing around the heater core usually because the seals are long gone. Only the 70-71's had the vacuum operated water shut off valve on AC equipped models. Stopping the flow through the heater core helps considerably and allows the AC to work better because it isn't fighting the heater core.
 
There are several ways to do it. A simple ball valve, an electric valve you can control with a special switch or the heater controls, or a stock type vacuum valve like the late 1st gens, early 2nd gens and some other Pontiac models had connected to the AC vacuum system.
 
And ya T tops in the sun are hot.



That explains all the heat for sure. Good to know. Thanks for the info! Definitely going to do something like that to help reduce heat.

#9 one79firebirdguy

one79firebirdguy

    Firebird Newbie

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Linwood
  • City:Whiteville
  • State or Province:NC
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 4.9l 301
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 05:35 PM

Any suggestions on where to buy the carpet? Ive seen it on ebay for around $170, regular plush. Place is in South Carolina. Mass backing or not since I'll be going with the Dynamat? My car is hard top automatic with the console.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/281423813644

#10 Brada

Brada

    Firebird Tire Changer

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Brad
  • City:Moorhead
  • State or Province:MN
  • Country:USA
  • Interests:Rugby, caribbean islands, travel, F1 racing, maps.
  • Year: 1975
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Trans Am
  • Engine: 455
  • Transmission: '73 M22 4 sp

Posted 21 May 2020 - 05:40 PM

Great info, I was thinking of posting this very same question. By heat shield/lava rock, did you mean something like Heatshield Products Lava Shield? I start to cook in the car after an hour, and really need to do something.

Followup,.. if you put an insulation product under your carpet that does not adhere/stick, will it eventually move and/or bunch up?

Edited by Brada, 21 May 2020 - 05:48 PM.


#11 NOT A TA

NOT A TA

    Firebird Mechanic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 997 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:John
  • City:Delray Beach
  • State or Province:FL
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1970
  • Make: pontiac
  • Model: Esprit
  • Engine: 400
  • Transmission: auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 06:07 PM

Any suggestions on where to buy the carpet? Ive seen it on ebay for around $170, regular plush. Place is in South Carolina. Mass backing or not since I'll be going with the Dynamat? My car is hard top automatic with the console.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/281423813644

I like ACC carpets and the mass backing because it insulates the trans tunnel better. Since hot air rises, the hot air from around the exhaust system rises into the trans tunnel when the car's not in motion.  The hot air moves through the tunnel then out the wheel wells above the rear tires. Some time, put your hand there above the rear tire when the car's parked while warm & idling and you'll feel the hot air.  Trans tunnel has a lot of surface area to release heat into passenger compartment. So sitting at lights or in traffic the tunnel can really heat up the car and it's in the middle so the air heated by the tunnel in the passenger compartment has to pass by driver & passenger to get out a window if there's no AC. That's part of the reason your feet & legs get hot.


John Paige

Lab-14.com


#12 Aus78Formula

Aus78Formula

    Firebird Mechanic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Ben
  • City:Sydney
  • State or Province:Other
  • Country:Australia
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird Formula
  • Engine: 403 Olds
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 06:25 PM

x2 ACC is probably the best around in factory-style 1-piece carpets in original colours and quality.

 

Be aware that all of the insulation, dynamat, extra layers, mass-backing, still only help slightly more than not at all. But since it's still better, it can be worthwhile. The difference being that the car sounds more solid when opening and closing doors, over bumps, engine idling, playing 70's hard rock too loud...

 

The factory-style of installing seats was by cutting flaps that pull back to the rear and the feet still mounting onto the floor steel. Sometimes the front flaps were removed so just a square cut-out. Any dynamat or insulation should be similar, leave a bare area around seat track mounting locations to get a secure install.

 

Seatbelts only need the hole in most cases, the soldering iron is good for this. Remember that the front seat belt anchors are behind the carpet on the inside of the side channels and the belt itself passes through slits made in the carpet which is covered by the trim. Many simply bolt these through the carpet without realising they are hidden.



#13 NOT A TA

NOT A TA

    Firebird Mechanic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 997 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:John
  • City:Delray Beach
  • State or Province:FL
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1970
  • Make: pontiac
  • Model: Esprit
  • Engine: 400
  • Transmission: auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 06:29 PM

Great info, I was thinking of posting this very same question. By heat shield/lava rock, did you mean something like Heatshield Products Lava Shield? I start to cook in the car after an hour, and really need to do something.

Followup,.. if you put an insulation product under your carpet that does not adhere/stick, will it eventually move and/or bunch up?

Ya, sorry we jokingly call the Lava Shield lava rock.

 

I've used two sided tape whenever I think bunching might occur in other folks cars and lightly glue the carpet in my car directly to the floor pan because I have to cut it in sections to fit it with the full cage and seat mounts. No sound deadening products in my car because "race car" and they're heavy.

 

While we're on the subject people in hot climates should test the products before installing. One of the builds I was working on a customer wanted to use sound deadening so I showed him how to cut & install. He wanted to do the complete covering even though I told him it wasn't necessary. Anyway he and his son went at it the following weekend. Next time I arrived to work on the car I found a huge mess of sticky tar that had melted in the garage.

 

003_zps6c8c6aab.jpg

 

002_zps66816854.jpg

 

001_zps119a09cd.jpg

 

 

"playing 70's hard rock too loud.."

 

When it's too loud, we're too old!   ahahaha


Edited by NOT A TA, 21 May 2020 - 06:30 PM.

John Paige

Lab-14.com


#14 Aus78Formula

Aus78Formula

    Firebird Mechanic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Ben
  • City:Sydney
  • State or Province:Other
  • Country:Australia
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird Formula
  • Engine: 403 Olds
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 21 May 2020 - 06:32 PM

Unrelated as don't know what carpet colour you are thinking of...but based on that ebay ad you'll see that many colours are general and to suit any models even if the carpet is not. Their main photo appears to show Camel Tan but is not in their listing, it should be #852 . And...there were different shades that still used the camel tan name. I have 852 Camel Tan in mine by ACC.

 

Any colours, check and double-check, even ask for a sample or photo to make sure it's what you are after especially if an unusual shade, not just black. Naturally, the carpet doesn't match the same name used in trim pieces but still should compliment them.


Edited by Aus78Formula, 21 May 2020 - 06:37 PM.


#15 one79firebirdguy

one79firebirdguy

    Firebird Newbie

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Linwood
  • City:Whiteville
  • State or Province:NC
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 4.9l 301
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 22 May 2020 - 06:24 PM

Unrelated as don't know what carpet colour you are thinking of...but based on that ebay ad you'll see that many colours are general and to suit any models even if the carpet is not. Their main photo appears to show Camel Tan but is not in their listing, it should be #852 . And...there were different shades that still used the camel tan name. I have 852 Camel Tan in mine by ACC.
 
Any colours, check and double-check, even ask for a sample or photo to make sure it's what you are after especially if an unusual shade, not just black. Naturally, the carpet doesn't match the same name used in trim pieces but still should compliment them.

Ok thanks so much. My interior is the light blue so I guess the "powder blue" color would be best. I've attached a picture of the look I'm going for. Thanks again!

Attached Files



#16 Brada

Brada

    Firebird Tire Changer

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Brad
  • City:Moorhead
  • State or Province:MN
  • Country:USA
  • Interests:Rugby, caribbean islands, travel, F1 racing, maps.
  • Year: 1975
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Trans Am
  • Engine: 455
  • Transmission: '73 M22 4 sp

Posted 22 May 2020 - 06:37 PM

Hmmm, 70s rock,.... on last Sunday's drive it was a litle Van Halen, good dose of Rush, and a Led Zepplin finish.

It was was interesting to hear about the 2nd gen blower never completely shutting off, thought something was wrong with my car, ready to pull the damn fuse. Heater mower always running on the verge of your hearing. My carpet is pretty nice, though, so don't need to change just yet. Someone must have did a mild resto 10 to 20 years ago but I have no actual history so do not know any details on just what they did.

The heat is a killer, however. Just like you described John.

Thanks for the advice, both of you.

#17 NOT A TA

NOT A TA

    Firebird Mechanic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 997 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:John
  • City:Delray Beach
  • State or Province:FL
  • Country:USA
  • Year: 1970
  • Make: pontiac
  • Model: Esprit
  • Engine: 400
  • Transmission: auto

Posted 22 May 2020 - 06:55 PM

"It was was interesting to hear about the 2nd gen blower never completely shutting off, thought something was wrong with my car, ready to pull the damn fuse."

 

It works in conjunction with the "Astro Flow Through Ventilation" system. Air is blown into the passenger compartment any time the car is running. It goes under the rear seats into the trunk, through the quarters & C pillars and comes out the vent in the door jamb. You could probably google "Astro Flow Through Ventilation" and get a full explanation. Maybe they thought it would help dry out the lower rear window channel rust as time went by??? ahahaha


John Paige

Lab-14.com


#18 73Birdman

73Birdman

    Not a Newbie

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1072 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Arquis
  • City:Chicago
  • State or Province:IL
  • Country:USA
  • Interests:fast cars, shooting pool , sports, loving the White Sox, Hating the Cubs, and fast cars
  • Year: 1973
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird
  • Engine: 400
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 17 June 2020 - 06:40 PM

I dynamted my entire interior except the roof.  It took 2 boxes of Dynamt to complete my interior.  My buddy works at Ford here in chicago and he gave me some of the Ford insulation which was like aluminum foil with a very sticky backside.  I used the Ford stuff to seal off the seams off the Dynmat.  I dont have AC and I dont drive my car in the winter.  The Dynamat really shines in terms of sound deadening, I have a Alpine sound system and it really, really sounds great.  I think a draw back to all the Dynamat in the car is the weight it brings.  I cant recall the exact weight of the box  but it wasnt lite


Edited by 73Birdman, 17 June 2020 - 06:41 PM.


#19 Aus78Formula

Aus78Formula

    Firebird Mechanic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Ben
  • City:Sydney
  • State or Province:Other
  • Country:Australia
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firebird Formula
  • Engine: 403 Olds
  • Transmission: Auto

Posted 17 June 2020 - 06:44 PM

Use some more thin pieces on the roof. It doesn't need complete coverage. It isn't for outside noise but the sound of a tinny, vibrating car with thin panels.

#20 07 Boss

07 Boss

    Firebird Oil Changer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 144 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • First Name:Ed
  • City:Las Vegas
  • State or Province:NV
  • Country:USA
  • Interests:anything on wheels that goes fast
  • Year: 1976
  • Make: Pontiac
  • Model: Firechicken
  • Engine: 350-4
  • Transmission: TH 350

Posted 20 July 2020 - 07:39 AM

So maybe an odd question and fire for me is a factor, but how flammable are these sound and thermal insulation applications?  It's a racecar but she is going to be street driven too.  I was actually thinking about Lizard Skin sound with a layer of thermal over the top.  I didn't see much discussion on Lizard Skin, any successes of failures? 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users