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P1441 and found another issue, tell me what this vacuum line goes to? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   aeidian 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:46 PM

I just did the rear brakes on my 97 Pontiac Firebird 3.8 V6 and I threw a P1441 code when test driving. While checking the vacuum lines going to the EVAP sensor to see if they were hooked up correctly I noticed another sensor farther towards the firewall that had a elbow connector on it but no hose, anyone can tell me what is supposed to hook to this because I cant find a loose vacuum line anywhere.


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#2 User is offline   aeidian 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:01 PM

 aeidian, on 20 February 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I just did the rear brakes on my 97 Pontiac Firebird 3.8 V6 and I threw a P1441 code when test driving. While checking the vacuum lines going to the EVAP sensor to see if they were hooked up correctly I noticed another sensor farther towards the firewall that had a elbow connector on it but no hose, anyone can tell me what is supposed to hook to this because I cant find a loose vacuum line anywhere.


vacuum2.png


Seems it may be just a vent hose with no connection, anyone confirm this?
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#3 User is offline   brarei200 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:10 PM

I had that same code the week I bought my car. Make sure your gas cap is on and tight, take the thing off and make sure it works (search up on how to test it, I forget)

I have a spare EVAP I could sell ya if it's not good.
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#4 User is offline   aeidian 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:30 PM

Cleared the code and took off the gas cap and put it back on took it for a drive and it didn't come back on, will repost if it does.
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:52 PM

That's what fixed mine too, never came on since. :)
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#6 User is offline   GaryDoug 

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:54 PM

The P1441 code means there was vacuum detected in the fuel tank when it was not expected. Most likely cause is a purge valve with something blocking it open (like a particle of charcoal from the canister) to the vacuum source at the engine. It does not mean there is a leak to the outside air somewhere, quite the opposite. The code may come and go if the particle passes through the purge valve.

This post has been edited by GaryDoug: 21 February 2012 - 03:54 PM

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#7 User is offline   aeidian 

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:20 AM

SES light did throw another P1441 code yesterday. Should I replace that purge valve sensor with the red clip in that pic or does that not have anything to do with it?
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#8 User is offline   GaryDoug 

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:53 AM

I would remove, clean and check the EVAP purge valve. It may have has something inside keeping it slightly open. You can test it by attempting to blow through it with the cable disconnected. No air should pass through. If it does, try tapping it on a table with the end away from the manifold tube down, if possible with voltage applied from a battery.
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#9 User is offline   Madman95 

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:31 PM

just checking,but does your ac/heater work?
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:03 PM

I'm going to assume the OBD-II EVAP system on the V6 is similar to the system on the V8. There would be two components to the EVAP system under the hood. The first is the EVAP purge solenoid. As noted above, if that is stuck open, you will get P1441. The vacuum is detected by the other component under the hood, a vacuum switch. Sometimes the problem is the switch. Finally, if you have the two hoses that go to the EVAP purge solenoid attached to the wronged connections, the code will set. And the vacuum detector switch has a short vent hose that doesn't connect to anything, which may explain the part you circled.
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#11 User is offline   aeidian 

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:13 PM

 bryan and the bird, on 23 February 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

just checking,but does your ac/heater work?


A/C unknown. Heater doesn't blow much heat. I'm going to replace the radiator soon and flush the system because what's inside looks like some nasty nasty stuff.
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#12 User is offline   aeidian 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:08 AM

 GaryDoug, on 23 February 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

I would remove, clean and check the EVAP purge valve. It may have has something inside keeping it slightly open. You can test it by attempting to blow through it with the cable disconnected. No air should pass through. If it does, try tapping it on a table with the end away from the manifold tube down, if possible with voltage applied from a battery.


Pulled the purge valve off and blew in each of the ports, both sides blew air out the other port. I used compressed air to blow it out, then sprayed some brake parts cleaner in it and blew it out again. It seemed to get better, but not 100% closed, still a very small amount of air getting through compared to before. Hooked it back up and took it for a 30 min ride. I pushed it pretty hard here and there (my GTP is jealous of the power) but the SES light never came back on. I did run the codes when I got back and I had a P1406 Pending Fault. Didn't light up the SES light, but it was still there. I had this code in there once before, and it didn't light up then either. I took off the EGR and cleaned it out at that time, put a new gasket between it and the port and it seemed fine, but now it's back. Suggestions at this point are what? Replace the EGR and the Purge Valve?

This post has been edited by aeidian: 24 February 2012 - 10:10 AM

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#13 User is offline   Madman95 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:18 AM

Well,my heater wasn't blowing much heat
Then I noticed I had a line under the hood
In the same spot that was disconnected,when I connected it..heater worked like a champ
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:30 AM

If air flows through the EVAP solenoid without it being energized via a 12V power supply and a ground, the solenoid is defective. It needs to be replaced.

As far as the P1406 pending, that appears to be a common problem in GM cars that is frequently not solved by replacing the valve. This article has some interesting info:

http://www.aa1car.co...003/us50326.htm

Scroll down to the paragraphs on "Pattern Failure".
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#15 User is offline   aeidian 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:09 AM

I'll run it a bit and see if the P1441 comes back on, then I'll pull it and run and hot and ground to it and see if it still lets air through it if it does. I think it may have just been some dirt, or age, or gremlins. I'll update later.

Took a look at that article and it says reprogramming, I'm assuming that's with the use of a tuner or such, correct? Nothing I can do myself?

This post has been edited by aeidian: 24 February 2012 - 11:10 AM

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:30 PM

 aeidian, on 24 February 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'll run it a bit and see if the P1441 comes back on, then I'll pull it and run and hot and ground to it and see if it still lets air through it if it does. I think it may have just been some dirt, or age, or gremlins. I'll update later.

Took a look at that article and it says reprogramming, I'm assuming that's with the use of a tuner or such, correct? Nothing I can do myself?


Don't necessarily believe that programming is necessary here. Did it always give this code since the car was new? Probably not. The test failure indicates that the EGR valve sensor did not respond as much and/or as quick as required by the test. That can be the fault of the sensor in the valve, or it can be because the valve is sticking and is slower than normal to respond. Clean it thoroughly at the bottom where the carbon is deposited and make sure the mechanism is free to move without sticking. Or just replace it, but remember that the aftermarket part may not perform as well as the original one. Reprogramming should be the last resort, unless you can get it done as a recall.

Another thing: You can use your scan tool to read the test monitor "readiness" status, and you will not be guessing about whether the tests have been done. Most scan tools, no matter how cheap, will have this feature. Here are screen photos of four, two handheld cheapos and two cheap software versions (one is mine;-) Keep always in mind however that some codes need more than one test to set the failure code. Check the online documents about the codes to determine if that is true for a specific code.

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#17 User is offline   aeidian 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:50 PM

 GaryDoug, on 24 February 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Don't necessarily believe that programming is necessary here. Did it always give this code since the car was new? Probably not. The test failure indicates that the EGR valve sensor did not respond as much and/or as quick as required by the test. That can be the fault of the sensor in the valve, or it can be because the valve is sticking and is slower than normal to respond. Clean it thoroughly at the bottom where the carbon is deposited and make sure the mechanism is free to move without sticking. Or just replace it, but remember that the aftermarket part may not perform as well as the original one. Reprogramming should be the last resort, unless you can get it done as a recall.

Another thing: You can use your scan tool to read the test monitor "readiness" status, and you will not be guessing about whether the tests have been done. Most scan tools, no matter how cheap, will have this feature. Here are screen photos of four, two handheld cheapos and two cheap software versions (one is mine;-) Keep always in mind however that some codes need more than one test to set the failure code. Check the online documents about the codes to determine if that is true for a specific code.


I use a program called Torque, that works with a bluetooth OBD 2 adapter and you can use the adapter with a computer (which I've never tried) or with a program like Torque, which is an android app. I'll have to look around the settings of the app and see if I can find something similar to what you're suggesting. As far as since the car was new, ya I doubt it too, but I have no way of knowing since I just bought it a couple weeks ago and it was in the computer at that time.
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:59 PM

The article was a generic description of the EGR pending code problem in GM cars. It is not specific to your car. I was just trying to give you an idea of why replacing the EGR valve may not solve your problem. A pending code shouldn't be of concern at this point. It might be worth seeing if there is a technical service bulletin (TSB) that deals specifically with your car. A TSB isn't a recall, just an indication that there is a frequent problem, and telling the dealer how to fix it. I would suspect the timeout on the diagnostic would not be something you can change with a handheld, which is intended for performance improvements, not curing spurious codes.
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#19 User is offline   brarei200 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:35 PM

I have an EVAP solenoid I can sell you for $5 plus shipping.... if that is what's wrong here....

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1555.l2649


http://i.imgur.com/UplBO.jpg
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#20 User is offline   GaryDoug 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:13 PM

 aeidian, on 24 February 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I use a program called Torque, that works with a bluetooth OBD 2 adapter and you can use the adapter with a computer (which I've never tried) or with a program like Torque, which is an android app. I'll have to look around the settings of the app and see if I can find something similar to what you're suggesting. As far as since the car was new, ya I doubt it too, but I have no way of knowing since I just bought it a couple weeks ago and it was in the computer at that time.


Here is your "Torque" app's monitor status screen. Impressive app for the size and price but I can't say much for the tiny graphs.

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