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Can you make a LT1 a standard carb style engine? put a dist. on top and a carb? Rate Topic: -----

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:53 PM

Here is the deal, I have a LT1 from a 94 caddy, I want to put a set of vortec heads and intake with a distributor in the normal hole in the back-top of the motor. I have the heads and all the parts from another engine. The question I have is what to do with the front of the of the engine where the waterpump and distributor was? Also what are my options as far as a waterpump? It is going into a 3rd gen drag car.

The parts I have for it are:
MSD pro billet dist
Victor JR intake
Worked Vortec heads
Holley 750 dbl pumper carb
I have not picked out a cam just yet so any advice there would help too, the valve springs are rated for .600 lift max
Everything he has for the engine is for a roller motor.
MSD Ignition system
Turbo 350 tranny beefed up
4.10 posi rear
8 point cage
sub frame connectors
electric fans
Holley blue fuel pump

This is a car that is my friends and I have about 7 years in helping him build, race and break. Its currently broken again and now we are trying to fix it once again.
thanks in advance
Albert
Treasure Coast, FL
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#2 User is offline   FSTLS1TA 

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:12 PM

If I am not mistaken this has been talked about before. That the Heads will not work because of the reverse flowing coolant the LT1 heads uses. I could be wrong but remember Fred saying something like that. He could answer better.


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#3 User is offline   96TA 

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:18 PM

View PostFSTLS1TA, on 01 November 2010 - 04:12 PM, said:

If I am not mistaken this has been talked about before. That the Heads will not work because of the reverse flowing coolant the LT1 heads uses. I could be wrong but remember Fred saying something like that. He could answer better.



What about using an electric waterpump? Do they make a timing cover that blocks the dist hole and waterpump shaft?
Albert
Treasure Coast, FL
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96 TRANS AM - SLP ceramic coated shorty headers, Flowmaster exhaust, SLP intake going in the bumper under the driverside light, Short throw shifter, Honeycomb tailights, Corvette styled 5 spoke rims with 315/35/17 Sumitomo rears 245/45/17 Fuzion HTI front tires, Drilled and slotted rotors front and rear, Accel optispark, Skip-shift eliminator, more to come...

1975 Trans Am SOLD -& MISSED -- THE 75 MOD LIST - C.E. SUBFRAME CONNECTORS, EIBACH LOWERING SPRINGS FRONT, 3 WAY ADJUSTABLE SHOCKS ALL AROUND, ENERGY SUSPENSION FROM FRONT TO BACK, FLOWMASTER SUPPER 44 x2, LONG TUBE HEADERS, JEGS 3" EXHAUST PIPES, RUSSLES BRAIDED BRAKE HOSES FRONT AND BACK, TCI STREET FIGHTER 400 TRANNY WITH 2200 STALL CONVERTER, NEW WIRING, AND MORE TO COME

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#4 User is offline   1993TransAm 

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:22 PM

Meziere makes one (or did) for the LT1, but I don't see how that will change the reverse cooling design of the engine.
"Simon, you finally moved on from those punk-a** V6s and turbo 4-cylinder cars." -- Mike R.
THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.
1993 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am..."Abygail"...Black...5.7L LT1 OHV V8...4L60
U1A CD player, '02 Firebird Monsoon Amplifier (12 speakers!), HUD, '91 Grand Prix UK3/NP5 steering wheel, SiriusXM, etc.
1992 Pontiac Richard Petty Special Edition Grand Prix SE..."Robbyn"...Neon Blue Metallic...3.4L LQ1 DOHC V6...4T60E
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1988 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz..."Emma"...White...4.5L LR6 OHV V8...440-T4
Delco/Bose Gold Series CD player!!!!! N-Body Monsoon configuration in the works...gonna bang!
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#5 User is offline   96TA 

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:36 PM

I do not understand what is meant by reverse cooling system, does the coolant flow the other way? and if I were to use the corvette electric waterpump, would that solve the flow of the coolant? Do you mean the flow through the head? I am very confused, thank you for your time and patience guys :waitasec:
Albert
Treasure Coast, FL
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96 TRANS AM - SLP ceramic coated shorty headers, Flowmaster exhaust, SLP intake going in the bumper under the driverside light, Short throw shifter, Honeycomb tailights, Corvette styled 5 spoke rims with 315/35/17 Sumitomo rears 245/45/17 Fuzion HTI front tires, Drilled and slotted rotors front and rear, Accel optispark, Skip-shift eliminator, more to come...

1975 Trans Am SOLD -& MISSED -- THE 75 MOD LIST - C.E. SUBFRAME CONNECTORS, EIBACH LOWERING SPRINGS FRONT, 3 WAY ADJUSTABLE SHOCKS ALL AROUND, ENERGY SUSPENSION FROM FRONT TO BACK, FLOWMASTER SUPPER 44 x2, LONG TUBE HEADERS, JEGS 3" EXHAUST PIPES, RUSSLES BRAIDED BRAKE HOSES FRONT AND BACK, TCI STREET FIGHTER 400 TRANNY WITH 2200 STALL CONVERTER, NEW WIRING, AND MORE TO COME

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#6 User is offline   1993TransAm 

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:51 PM

In the LT1, cold coolant is first routed to the cylinder heads (where combustion occurs) and returns to the water pump through the engine block. In the traditional smallblock setup, the cold coolant flows through the engine block first and then to the heads. That's oversimplifying how it works, but it allows for the higher compression ratios in the LT1s, accounting for their power. I also know that the LT1s use a "dry" intake manifold, meaning that there is no coolant flow through the manifold, contrary to other smallblocks. This may prevent the use of a carburetor because the LT1 heads and carb intake manifold will not be compatible.

Fred should be able to nail this one.
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THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.
1993 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am..."Abygail"...Black...5.7L LT1 OHV V8...4L60
U1A CD player, '02 Firebird Monsoon Amplifier (12 speakers!), HUD, '91 Grand Prix UK3/NP5 steering wheel, SiriusXM, etc.
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1995 Pontiac Grand Am SE..."Missy"...Bright Aqua Metallic...3.1L L82 OHV V6...4T60E
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Delco cassette player, Remote CD player, Olds Alero UQ3 amplifier coming???
1992 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL..."Stormi"...Bright Red...3.1L LH0 OHV V6...4T60
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1992 Buick Riviera..."Josephine"...Sapphire Blue Firemist...3.8L L27 OHV V6...4T60E
Delco cassette player, Remote CD player, Buick Century Monsoon amplifier coming???

1988 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz..."Emma"...White...4.5L LR6 OHV V8...440-T4
Delco/Bose Gold Series CD player!!!!! N-Body Monsoon configuration in the works...gonna bang!
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Not pictured - Delco CD player, Chevy Camaro Monsoon amp coming???

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#7 User is offline   96TA 

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:18 PM

Thank you Simon I am still thinking that the flow of the coolant can still be maintained by the use of the electric waterpump and the heads are not the LT1 heads, they are GM Iron Vortec heads (aftermarket) and the intake is a Edelbrock Victor Jr.
Albert
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96 TRANS AM - SLP ceramic coated shorty headers, Flowmaster exhaust, SLP intake going in the bumper under the driverside light, Short throw shifter, Honeycomb tailights, Corvette styled 5 spoke rims with 315/35/17 Sumitomo rears 245/45/17 Fuzion HTI front tires, Drilled and slotted rotors front and rear, Accel optispark, Skip-shift eliminator, more to come...

1975 Trans Am SOLD -& MISSED -- THE 75 MOD LIST - C.E. SUBFRAME CONNECTORS, EIBACH LOWERING SPRINGS FRONT, 3 WAY ADJUSTABLE SHOCKS ALL AROUND, ENERGY SUSPENSION FROM FRONT TO BACK, FLOWMASTER SUPPER 44 x2, LONG TUBE HEADERS, JEGS 3" EXHAUST PIPES, RUSSLES BRAIDED BRAKE HOSES FRONT AND BACK, TCI STREET FIGHTER 400 TRANNY WITH 2200 STALL CONVERTER, NEW WIRING, AND MORE TO COME

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#8 User is offline   1993TransAm 

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:58 PM

Do those heads line up with the LT1 block? I guess your initial post isn't clear whether you had the engine running with those heads on it before.
"Simon, you finally moved on from those punk-a** V6s and turbo 4-cylinder cars." -- Mike R.
THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.
1993 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am..."Abygail"...Black...5.7L LT1 OHV V8...4L60
U1A CD player, '02 Firebird Monsoon Amplifier (12 speakers!), HUD, '91 Grand Prix UK3/NP5 steering wheel, SiriusXM, etc.
1992 Pontiac Richard Petty Special Edition Grand Prix SE..."Robbyn"...Neon Blue Metallic...3.4L LQ1 DOHC V6...4T60E
UB3 digital cluster, UP3 CD player, 10-disc changer, DIC, HUD, AQ9s, SGS switch, Firebird Monsoon amplifier (10 speakers!), etc.
1995 Pontiac Grand Am SE..."Missy"...Bright Aqua Metallic...3.1L L82 OHV V6...4T60E
Firebird UW2 amplifier, sail panel tweeters (8 speakers), Firebird Monsoon CD player, UK3/NP5 steering wheel, GT tail lights, GT exhaust, etc.
1992 Oldsmobile Toronado Troféo..."Norma"...Light Driftwood Metallic...3.8L L27 OHV V6...4T60E
Delco cassette player, Remote CD player, Olds Alero UQ3 amplifier coming???
1992 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL..."Stormi"...Bright Red...3.1L LH0 OHV V6...4T60
UB3 digital cluster, UQ3 amplifier, Audio Bass Control slider, UK3/NP5 steering wheel, U1C CD player, Driver Information System, leather AQ9s, etc.

1992 Buick Riviera..."Josephine"...Sapphire Blue Firemist...3.8L L27 OHV V6...4T60E
Delco cassette player, Remote CD player, Buick Century Monsoon amplifier coming???

1988 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz..."Emma"...White...4.5L LR6 OHV V8...440-T4
Delco/Bose Gold Series CD player!!!!! N-Body Monsoon configuration in the works...gonna bang!
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z34..."Summer"...Medium Maui Blue Metallic...3.4L LQ1 DOHC V6...4T60E
Not pictured - Delco CD player, Chevy Camaro Monsoon amp coming???

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:20 PM

View Post1993TransAm, on 01 November 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

Do those heads line up with the LT1 block? I guess your initial post isn't clear whether you had the engine running with those heads on it before.


I am not sure if the heads would line up, that's another good question, the heads are from Jegs. I am sure they will work since they are a for a SBC after 87.
Albert
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96 TRANS AM - SLP ceramic coated shorty headers, Flowmaster exhaust, SLP intake going in the bumper under the driverside light, Short throw shifter, Honeycomb tailights, Corvette styled 5 spoke rims with 315/35/17 Sumitomo rears 245/45/17 Fuzion HTI front tires, Drilled and slotted rotors front and rear, Accel optispark, Skip-shift eliminator, more to come...

1975 Trans Am SOLD -& MISSED -- THE 75 MOD LIST - C.E. SUBFRAME CONNECTORS, EIBACH LOWERING SPRINGS FRONT, 3 WAY ADJUSTABLE SHOCKS ALL AROUND, ENERGY SUSPENSION FROM FRONT TO BACK, FLOWMASTER SUPPER 44 x2, LONG TUBE HEADERS, JEGS 3" EXHAUST PIPES, RUSSLES BRAIDED BRAKE HOSES FRONT AND BACK, TCI STREET FIGHTER 400 TRANNY WITH 2200 STALL CONVERTER, NEW WIRING, AND MORE TO COME

THE 95 TRANS AM SOLD BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:24 PM

:bump23:

still trying to figure this out, thanks for the additional help :25help:
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Treasure Coast, FL
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96 TRANS AM - SLP ceramic coated shorty headers, Flowmaster exhaust, SLP intake going in the bumper under the driverside light, Short throw shifter, Honeycomb tailights, Corvette styled 5 spoke rims with 315/35/17 Sumitomo rears 245/45/17 Fuzion HTI front tires, Drilled and slotted rotors front and rear, Accel optispark, Skip-shift eliminator, more to come...

1975 Trans Am SOLD -& MISSED -- THE 75 MOD LIST - C.E. SUBFRAME CONNECTORS, EIBACH LOWERING SPRINGS FRONT, 3 WAY ADJUSTABLE SHOCKS ALL AROUND, ENERGY SUSPENSION FROM FRONT TO BACK, FLOWMASTER SUPPER 44 x2, LONG TUBE HEADERS, JEGS 3" EXHAUST PIPES, RUSSLES BRAIDED BRAKE HOSES FRONT AND BACK, TCI STREET FIGHTER 400 TRANNY WITH 2200 STALL CONVERTER, NEW WIRING, AND MORE TO COME

THE 95 TRANS AM SOLD BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
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Posted 02 November 2010 - 04:49 PM

you can bolt on the vortech heads, but the coolant ports and so forth don't match up. They really won't work

You run a carb with a regular disty on an lt1, GMPP even sells a carb intake for it.
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Posted 02 November 2010 - 07:36 PM

You don't need to use Gen 1 SBC heads. You keep the LT1 heads, and get the GM LT1 carb manifold. It (obviously) mounts a 4-bbl carb, and has a hole at the back, correctly aligned, for a conventional distributor. Then you get the GM Opti-delete plate to cover the hole on the front of the block where the Opti mounts. There is no issue regarding the water pump.... works normally. Not sure if you can still get the manifold from the factory (GM Performance Parts - try Pace PArts or Scoggin-Dickey), and I know the Opti plate has been discontinued, but there are still some floating around.

You may need a cowl hood to clear the carb, and you will probably need a "pancake" style distributor to have any chance of getting the distributor under the cowl, and not having to cut out the windshield wipers. If its a track car, or a 3rd Gen, not an issue.

A lot of people don't like the GM LT1 manifold for high performance applications, because it is dual plane. You can get a single-plane Gen 1 SBC intake manifold modified to mate with the LT1 heads. Two bolt holes have to be relocated, and the coolant connections need to be plugged.

You don't need to use the Gen 1 Vortech heads. They were developed based on the cast iron heads used on the B-Body (Caprice SS/Roadmaster/Fleetwood) LT1 cars. The cast iron LT1 heads actually flow better in stock form than the aluminum LT1 heads. The problem with the cast iron heads is the extra weight, and the fact that they will not handle as much ignition timing advance as aluminum heads. The iron head LT1 engine from the Caddy also has a lower compression ratio, and a milder cam than the F-Body (Camaro/Firebird) and Y-Body (Corvette) aluminum head LT1's.

If you insist on using the Gen 1 Vortech heads, you will need to have the coolant passages realigned - some need to be welded closed and some need to be drilled - not sure I'd want to weld on the CI head. And of course, an aluminum head is a lot easier to port.

To me, using an LT1 block, and then using it with Gen 1 parts, or even for a carb/distributor conversion is completely the wrong way to go. Just get a Gen 1 SBC block, and use the cheaper Gen 1 SBC performance parts. Other than the reverse flow cooling, and the fact that the LT1 block can handle 1,000HP with just a 4-bolt main conversion, there is no point in using it.
1994 FIREBIRD FORMULA

FRED

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381ci all-forged stroker - 10.8:1 - CNC LT4 heads/intake - CC solid roller - MoTeC engine management - 8 LS1 coils - 58mm TB - 78# injectors - 300-shot dry nitrous - TH400 - Gear Vendor O/D - Strange 12-bolt - 4.11's - AS&M headers - duals - Corbeau seat - AutoMeter gauges - roll bar - Spohn suspension - QA1 shocks - a few other odds 'n ends. 800HP/800lb-ft at the flywheel, on a 300-shot. 11.5 @ 117MPH straight motor
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